Allison Fisher - Part 4 (Shifting Gears, Finding Greatness)

We taught you about sharking, too.
Well, I mean, in Snooker, that just does not exist. I was shocked when I came over here that what people would do to try and win. It really opened my eyes.
Who was the worst?
I can't say names.
We can always edit it out.
All right, well, let's just say that they were married to men on tour.
Oh, there we go.
All of them.
All three of them.
We are the dregs of England, you know that.
It happens. It happens though, doesn't it? And sometimes the fan doesn't realize it.
Yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, you're right.
I think it's, is it less today than it was before?
Well, yeah, because you're wise to it too.
I think it definitely is less, the players of today. But boy, there's some obvious things that people do and it's like, wow, shame on them.
The class and dignity of Snooker didn't translate. But it was also sort of good because it got you mentally tough.
And there was, you know, specific players on the Men's Pro Tour that like, if you engaged with Strickland while he played, because he was used to being combative and somewhat negative, that he would just murder you because he plays agitated every
day. You don't.
That's the truth.
Just saying.
I did get very mentally strong, not from here. I mean, I was mentally strong from Snooker because you have to be at that game too. But I had so much experience from that career that I always felt like Snooker was my apprenticeship for my poor career.
I always called it that. Whereas in one career, I worked really hard and won a lot of events, but maybe didn't make a lot of money. In this career, I came over at the right time when it was really big on ESPN and made a really good name for myself.
So I was here at the height of it, which was wonderful.
So from the time you came over, Allie, how long before you kind of reflected back and said, okay, right move?
Oh, it was very quickly, first tournament.
You know, I have to reflect, I sat on a plane with a cue in a case, wondering what I was doing, you know, the reality when I was sitting on the plane of like, I'm going to another country, no idea what's going to happen with a cue in a case.
And I got there and obviously I told you, I went into the room in Charlotte and felt at home straight away. And I won, I think $1,200 for coming in ninth. That was more money than I was winning in a snooker tournament for winning it.
So to me, it was a right decision right off the bat.
Yeah. And how long did it take you to settle in to where you knew you were going to make home?
Immediately pretty much because after Florida, we had the World Championships in Taiwan. So I think I went, I don't know what I did. I think Kelly Oyama invited me to stay with her for a while.
So that was a person who owned Mother's Billiard Parlor. So I think I stayed there. Then we went to Taiwan.
I came third in the World Championships. Now that was crazy in itself. It was my first time of playing a World Pool Championships.
I finished third and the guy, Phil Collins, came over to watch it, the one who sponsored me. And then going back, the next tournament in America after that was the WPBA Nationals, huge event, 20,000 to the winner.
Well, came back from Taiwan and stayed in LA with a few of the girls. I think there was a house, I think Peg Ledman, who was big part of our tour then.
I think she was renting a house from a friend or staying at lodging in a house and had a few of us stay there. So that happened, we all stayed together. And then my dad flew over from England.
And I moved into a hotel then with my dad and we hung out. And this was the first time he had been in America. And to watch me play pool as well.
Yeah. And so he came over and he was all in his suit and everything. And he watched me play the Nationals and I ended up winning it.
And I won the $20,000. And then in the match before the final, I played Robin Dodson. And I broke the ball's mark and everything was perfect.
And in my mind, I'd run out the rack and I shot the one ball. Then I shot the three. And Steve Tipton goes foul.
And I'm like, what? What do I do? And he said, you haven't shot the two yet.
So I gave ball in that. But it didn't get to me. And that was the thing.
I think people would think, I'd get flustered over it. But I sort of sat and laughed in my chair at how silly I was. And that was probably the first time on national TV, on ESPN.
But anyway, and I played in the final and I was about to play a safety shot on Laurie John. And suddenly, I saw a three ball combo to win the tournament. And it was right there.
It was sitting there and I played that three ball combo and won the tournament. And, you know, my dad always sat at the back, of course. And it was just nice to have him there.
And he came, eventually came down. I was beckoning down to come and hug me. They eventually came down.
He was very proud. So it was really lovely to have my dad there to see that.
Yeah, yeah. So you brought this up about shooting the wrong ball. Did that ever happen again?
Oh, I've done some funny things since, actually.
I think even within last year, I picked, for whatever reason, I picked up the nine ball thinking it was a cue ball. Brittany had passed me the cue ball, but put it on the table and I was just studying this shot.
And suddenly I picked up the nine ball thinking it was a cue ball because I saw that white stripe on it. I'm like, what am I doing? Yeah, a couple of times I made some silly errors, more mental errors.
Check your prescription.
I tell you.
On that one.
Embarrassing.
Mark, have you done that before?
Oh, sure. Shoot the wrong ball or?
Yeah, of course. Missed with ball and hand.
Oh, we've all done that.
Yeah, all kinds of things. But I mean, that's just part of playing your whole life. Everything happens at some point.
Yeah, yeah.
I think I saw a recent video of somebody like Jason Sashaw or something, just pick up the cue ball, even though it wasn't ball and hand.
Yeah, I mean, you just have mental brain mistake sometimes.
The one time Irving Crane was playing in a big straight pool match and he missed the shot. Then just with his cue, just put the object ball back where it was and move the cue ball back like he was practicing and try it again.
They're right in the middle of the match. Now, he was older and maybe he got a little bit out of it or something. But it was just a, so I mean, of course, anything can happen.
Yeah.
Well, I learned a lesson and I'm sure this has happened to you, but I was playing a shot, it was a jump shot to make the nine, right? To win the game. And I executed the jump and I made the nine and thought I'd won the game, right?
So I just swept the other balls to the end of the table. And my opponent says, oh no, the seven ball you were jumping over moved. And most in the crowd said, no, no, it didn't move.
And there was one guy on my team that said, Mike, it moved. I said, okay, lost my game. I'm never going to sweep the balls again.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, there's rules, it's very strict now in some tournaments too, that if you have to wait till all balls stop rolling, even the cue ball, so you make a ball.
I was playing Hanyu in the World Ten Ball in New Zealand last year. She's a little girl from China, lady from China. And she missed the eight ball.
We're playing ten ball and I think, what was it? I can't remember what it was. She picked up, just put the balls on the table because it was only the ten left.
You know, it was like a ball in hand situation or something like this where she failed. And she just threw the balls on to rack up the next game. And she ended up losing two games because of that.
They took a game away and gave me another game.
That's fairly common though.
Yeah. I mean, it's the rules. You're not allowed to touch any balls.
If there's any movement or you don't give up a game, you get a game against you penalized.
And the reason is that they don't want the audience to lose track. You're just conceding balls and the audience gets lost. And then they just don't want that.
So it's the image that that rule has been around for a little bit. Yeah.
So let's come back to your record on the WPBA Tour. Now, we're going to talk about your first full year. And Mark, I don't know about you, but I find the fact that she wins eight WPBA events in her first full year is rather impressive.
Yeah.
The most remarkable. Yeah.
I didn't know that.
It really set the tone of we knew she's good and we've seen her before, but you don't think she's going to assert herself and dominate, especially like she's saying, Robert Dodson, top player.
I don't think Jean was still playing at that point, was she?
No, she wasn't.
But Jeanette was formidable and then there was other top players too. There was Laurie John, there was Laurie Champault. I don't know if, did you ever know her?
Was she out of the scene before you?
I think she was out of the scene.
Okay. But there was still many other top players.
Ava was one of the top ones, wasn't she? Ava.
A hundred percent.
Yeah, Laurie John, Vivian. So I became number one within 11 months. That's what it was.
I got to the number one spot in 11 months, which was great. So within a year, and I couldn't believe it really how well I was doing, but my goal was to win a tournament within six months, and I did it within two weeks.
So once I got on that little streak, it's again, knowing that you can.
Yeah. I think you won the Old House and LA Classic in 1996 that began a run of eight straight wins across 96 and 97. Again, rather impressive.
And you relate that to the men's side. Has that ever happened, Mark?
Closest it was probably Nick Varner. He won one year where he had 21 events, he won 11 of them.
And in the past, it had always been somebody who won two or three, and then a couple other guys too, and then it would go scattered because it's fiercely competitive.
Yeah, definitely.
Very hard to dominate like that. Yeah.
Yeah. I ran across that status. I was doing the research for our talk with Nick next week on the program, and 11 out of 22, not bad, but to win eight straight like that.
I guess by now you're thinking, okay, I kind of got this nine ball thing figured out, I guess.
Loving it.
I think what it, and it always has been to me, I can't believe that I've been living in America longer than I lived in England, first of all, because it's 30 years now, and it's all been like a fairy tale to me because I've enjoyed every moment.
The people have been so welcoming, the fans, I mean, everyone across the board, people I've taught, friendships. It's just been really wonderful.
You can't knock the weather over here either compared to England, but everything in general has been a pleasure, really. It's been like Mark says, I couldn't have had a better life, really.
Well, educate me, if you will. Certainly educate our listeners as it relates to the different disciplines of pool contested by the women professionals.
Was it almost exclusively nine ball throughout the beginning of your career, or were there the occasional eight ball 14-1 straight pool competitions?
Well, it was almost exclusively nine ball, but then there was one US Open straight pool event, and it was at the Roseland Ballroom in New York City, and my sponsor at the time, Janet Schimel, who was my Q-Tech sponsor, she owned the company JS Sales,
who sold Q-Tech throughout the States. Anyway, she said, you've got to go in that. I said, well, I don't even play straight pool. I don't know how to play.
I said, it's not really my game. I'm not really comfortable, Janet. She said, look, just go in it for me.
I said, all right. I landed in New York. You know Stu Montana, Mark, right?
Oh, 100%. Yeah, so Stu is a great player. He's a great guy who lives in New York, loves pool, everything to do with it.
And anyway, I'm at the tournament practice and he was showing me some shots that I wouldn't have known in straight pool, just little safeties or how to go into the pack at a certain situation. And I didn't know these things.
So we just did a crash course. So I made a 66 break, I think, in one of the matches. And I was gutted because I was really in a flow and I missed the ball.
But anyway, and then I played Laurie John in the final. And sure enough, those shots were coming up that he taught me that we did the crash course and that helped me win. And then I won the US Open straight ball.
And what a beautiful event it was. It was put on by Black Billiards. And they refurbish pool tables out of New York.
All these wonderful old Brunswick's and very old equipment, beautiful. And it was a black tie event. Everyone looked the part.
Because when you look back in some of these events, you see that it's like, wow, look at the audience watching the dress code even. And it was a magnificent event at the Roseland Ballroom. And I ended up winning it.
I didn't expect to, but I was so happy that Janet put me in it.
Yeah. That would be a discipline that you would excel at because of, you know, it's not, it's not so much, it's more about control of the cue ball. Because in nine ball, you can get either angle, you can get an inside or outside angle.
But a lot of times in straight pool, you have to be on the right angle. You can't just settle for something.
And once you got onto that and then like, you know, having Stu show you a few of the nuances and the moves safety wise around the rack, it's going to be devastating, you know. So it's not so much firepower supreme, it's control.
True. And like I said, when we talked yesterday, that was the first time I saw Seagull playing Suke and how he bent his cue and snapped it in half. So it was quite an event, a lot of drama.
That was the event, huh?
That was the event.
Yeah.
So what about opportunities over the years to play Bank Pool or One Pocket?
Not really. Only in a pool room when people would say, do you want to play One Pocket? I said, not really got an interest in it.
Because I used to hear that it would, looking at it now, it would probably be good, but they used to say it would probably screw up your short game, you know, because it's quite a jabby little, some of these little shots that they play in One Pocket.
I don't know, I don't know if it would have or not, but to be honest with you, I liked Nine Ball, quick and exciting. I come from Snooker, which was a very, you know, slower game.
And I didn't want to go back into, you know, that long sort of thinking game. I was enjoying something new. So I think I just was in that mindset as well.
Yeah, with Nine Ball, your shots are numbered for you, Ali.
You don't have to come up with it in straight pool. You got to imagine and create.
Oh, I loved straight pool. I enjoyed that. And I think I would have got into that if that was, if that was, those were the tournament, if that's what we were playing, I probably would have been, become a very good straight pool player.
But I wasn't really interested in one pocket or bank. Bank pool wasn't really practiced a thing then when I was here anyway.
You went to move to Kentucky.
Yeah, exactly.
So you probably both have views on this.
As we talked to the golfers and talked about being multi-sport athletes, they'd be concerned about the kids nowadays, just being singularly focused on the sport and not developing their whole body, their whole mind, their whole game, if you will.
What about with pool? How do you look at it in terms of excelling at a particular aspect or certain to pool game? Do you think that players would benefit from having some skills in the various disciplines?
I think so.
I think definitely. But there needs to be more of those tournaments. However, on saying that, I've been at tournaments where they've had one pocket being played in the background, and these matches take two and three hours.
I don't think from a public point of view, if people don't play it, they're not going to be as interested, even though it's a good skill set. If you're not exposed to it and you don't need to play it, I'm not really sure how I feel about that.
But I think everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. And drills of different sorts can help you through all of that.
Yeah, a lot of times people's attention span won't support those prolonged games. And so I do think the transitional skills that come from snooker apply to pool. And then also billiards on the billiard table.
There's little things there, but most people don't have the appetite. And a lot of the information died with my great-grandfather. It's just not played.
You can't hardly find those things. So, and that was one of the things that brought the Filipinos over here. They did have that background in one, just 15 ball rotation pool.
That's one of it, but also the billiard side of it. Ball climb billiards, carrom billiards, three cushion billiards, one cushion, two cushion. And I hadn't been exposed to it either.
And it was also perhaps a bit immature and impatient. And I'm thinking, billiards, are you kidding me? Only when I get old, when you can't hit the pocket, that's what you do.
You know what I mean?
You know, it's interesting. I went to Singapore to teach the Singapore players for the Southeast Asian Games. And in those games, Ephraim was playing carrom for his country.
So the other Filipinos were playing maybe nine ball and 10 ball, and Ephraim was doing the carrom, three cushion.
Yeah, there is a lot that's, I don't know, as a kid, I've probably mentioned this to both of you. They had the three time US three cushion champion, George Ashby ran the little Pool Hall where I grew up.
And I would just sit there and watch him play three cushion. And I wish I could go back in time and do that some more, knowing what I know now about pool and how to apply what I would see them do on that table to the game of pool. Yeah, right.
Well, one of my rivals in pool, who I used to love playing till she left the tour, was Gaeun Kim from Korea.
Now, she grew up playing three cushion. Her father got on three cushion table. So she was an expert on that.
And one of the finest kickers in the women's tour that I ever played, we used to have some great safety battles. I would kick back, she would play, so I'd kick back, she would kick back.
We had some epic battles and I used to love playing her because she was an aggressive shot maker too. But she was my favorite player to play on tour.
Now, she's playing in three cushion tournaments all the time in Korea because they're massive money now for women. So that's all she's doing. So it's good for the game, definitely good for your game.
She was a real crowd pleaser here in the US too because the audience loves her.
She's fast, she's cute, she plays great, she's cheerful.
And she wore a heart on her sleeve, which was good, you know, the expressions.
Very compelling, my wife loved her.
Yeah, she was great, great player.
So we get back to your record and we'll go back to 96 because we probably need to have you talk about your first WPA World Nine Ball Championship. This was in Sweden.
Oh, I remember that. That was my favorite World Championship win. And the reason being, it was a class event, it was put on really well, but what I really loved about it was the long races.
I think we started at races to nine and went up to races to 13. And a longer match is going to suit, I think, the better player. So you can get comfortable, you know, you can get into it.
But that was my favorite World Championships, my first one.
Was that the one in Borlänge?
Yes.
Okay. Yeah, I was there.
I played Helena in the final. Did you remember that?
I do.
The venue, it was really nice, wasn't it?
Yes, we even went to a restaurant with Helena while we were there. And then do you remember who won the men's?
No.
Ha, interesting. Ralph Sucay beat Tom Storm in the finals 11-0.
Really?
Yeah, it was the most, both had played phenomenal all week, but Ralph was just on fire.
I probably got a picture of it somewhere. Yeah, no doubt. I should have remembered that, because I can see the cover on Billiard Digest in my head.
It's interesting when you go back through your record, you look at the sponsors of some of the events.
I mean, most of all of these were WPBA events, but McDermott's in the name, Brunswick's in the name, Ollhausen, Q-Tech, Viking.
Viking. They were the big one, Imperial. What we did back then on our tour was we put all the different parts out to bid, so we weren't dominated by one table or dominated by one queue.
Everyone had a fair chance to bid for the tournament, and whoever got the highest bid was the queue sponsor or the table sponsor for that event, which was a great idea.
What tables were you guys typically playing on during this era, mid-90s, let's say?
We played Brunswick's, Imperial, Connolly and I think Recreational Factory Warehouse had one. Let me just think. So, Connolly, Owhausen, Brunswick.
I don't think Diamond were in the mix back then. They weren't in the mix.
There was a table made by Kestel, I believe it was.
No, it was, it was Cason. They sponsored me.
Cason, yeah.
They sponsored, that's right. K-A-S-S-O-N.
Correct. So, Cason, Connolly, O'House and Brunswick, Imperial. Those were.
Yeah, yeah.
So, I see in your record a few times this ESPN Ultimate Nine Ball Challenge. Tell us a little bit about that event.
My God, that was the biggest money in pool at the time. It was, I think it was 40,000 to the winner and 20,000. There was another prize, I can't remember how we did it, but 60,000 total.
I won it twice and the time I lost, when I beat the very first one where I beat Robin Dodson with that one-nine combo, I got into the final and I played Vivian and I lost 7-5 and I was absolutely gutted because a couple of shots, I played like a
snooker player. I didn't play like a pool player because it was still new to me. Instead of going three rails, I went two rails. I'll explain it later, but I played the shots incorrectly and it cost me.
Anyway, I lost and that was the time when the top finishing woman got to play the top finishing man, which I would have played CJ. I loved playing guys because I come from playing snooker. I think I would have beaten him.
Honestly, in my heart, I think I would have beaten him. Anyway, I think they played for an extra 20,000, but I would have relished that. I was gutted I didn't play that match.
Talking about CJ.
Wiley. Yeah. Mark, you would have spent a little time with CJ over the years, I'm sure.
Oh, definitely.
Yeah, he's a Missouri boy.
I remember when he was just a young boy, he'd come to the tournaments, and then he, I don't know exactly how he evolved, but he ended up in Dallas, Texas, and made quite a name for himself, became a high-level pro player, not quite as high as he
thinks he was, but he normally refers to himself as this, it's really just me and Mike Segal and Buddy Hall, and I'm like, okay, slow down there a little bit there. But he was a great player, no doubt about it. And then he's a fantastic storyteller.
I watch his videos that just laugh throughout all of them, and it's so comical. But he exudes self-confidence, and he was a great player.
Yeah, yeah. As we said at the top, we're not gonna be able to talk about all these wins, but you win the World Championship in 1996, so what do you do? Do you come to my old hometown as Chi Town, and in the next year, you go back to back?
Chicago, right?
So that was a great, I remember winning that one. I think Johnny won the World that year, maybe next to me. But yeah, I remember winning that one.
That was a great venue too. We played in a hotel in Chicago, and I had my nice Jack Justice case, I remember that. And yeah, again, doing the back to back is nice, isn't it?
Because it's not the one hit wonder, and retaining titles is always great.
Well, how about back to back to back?
Yeah, that was a record too. That was a big one for me, because nobody had won three in a row. So that was really nice too.
Robin held two in a row, and I think that was it. And then, so I came in and made it three.
Yeah, that was in Taiwan. I mean, did you feel the pressure of trying to do something no one had ever done before?
Yeah, but I think pressure in a good way, it just depends how you look at it, doesn't it? I mean, it makes you more determined sometimes. You can feel pressure and fold, or you can feel pressure and really focus.
So I think I was just really good at focusing and dealing with pressure, if you like, maybe not taking it as pressure and just as the challenge. So everything is how you look at it and how you feel about it.
And Taiwan, I've been over to the Amway Cup. I was familiar with Taiwan over the years. I've been there many times.
The people were really lovely, following us, the fans. And we played in stadiums. It was amazing.
When we used to play in Taiwan, thousands of people, but if you missed, they'd be laughing. It was the most unnerving place. You would be like, what?
That's awful. They're laughing at me missing. And it made you feel like so small.
But you had to end up laughing at it because to them, they're watching a game and they think it's funny when you miss. And we're folding, like, oh my, I can't believe this. It's certainly, again, character building.
Once you know what to expect, you know how to deal with it.
Share with our listeners a little bit about your first Pool Cue and then how your cues evolved because you probably made a few changes during your career.
Well, what do you mean from Snooker to Pool?
Well, yeah, just who made your first Pool Cue?
Q-Tek. I came over from England directly with Q-Tek and it was a fiberglass coated cue. And the first one I used was an El Strickland cue, funnily enough, because I obviously didn't have my brand out at the time.
So I was using, I still have it, I still have the cues I used. So I had a full-length 58-inch fiberglass coated cue with El Strickland's signature. And then eventually they made my own line and I got mine down to 56-inch, which is what I use today.
So I was with Q-Tek for 16 years and I probably only had four or five cues in that time, I think. And they developed as time went by because then Predator developed the 314 shaft and then I got Q-Tek to do a low deflection shaft.
And then they did the 360, I think it was called, the R360. So yeah, that developed over time.
So when did the players make the switch to carbon fiber shafts?
That's been recent years. I'm not sure how many years it's been. I've probably been using one for three or four years.
And they've been out a little bit longer than that. But back in the day Q-Tek did the graphite, wasn't it? It was the idea, but it was made of graphite.
And now the carbon fibers become a big thing. And I tell you what, it's added some points on people's games. Certain people who maybe didn't have the strength or the ball-pocketing skill, it's changed their game.
It's taken them up a level because it's much less deflection and it's easier to move the ball around. So there's pros and cons to everything, I think. The feel of wood is different and the vibration of wood in your hand is different.
But the carbon fiber makes it a little more of an equal playing field.
I probably much like golf, when the Big Bertha came out with the big headed drivers, then you went to a different shaft technology, the players all talk about going to a metal headed wood.
Just probably like pool, there were people that were early adopters of the new technology and probably those that says, I'm going to wait a little while on this stuff.
Same with tennis rackets, anything involves. Tennis rackets used to be wood till they changed. So, everything involves and the balls have changed, the cloth has changed, there's lots of changes.
Yeah, Mark, you stuck with wood, didn't you?
I do, but I do believe now that carbon fiber is better in some ways in terms of the performance characteristics, but not the feel.
And so, because I don't compete, I just still stick with wood. But I do think finally, our sport's backwards. So, we're the last ones.
So, tennis rackets evolved, golf clubs evolved, and then now finally, pools getting to the point where we're starting to make some tangible growth. And you mentioned Big Bertha, that kind of calls to mind this.
Viking Cue was one of the first major cue manufacturers in the United States that were prolific. And so, the partners of that, the owners of that were Dick Helmsetter and Gordie Hart.
And Gordie's hard to get along with, so they had a falling out and went separate ways. And then there was Helmsetter Cues and Adams Cues made by him. He moved to New York.
He then moved to Japan and they started designing golf clubs and he's the one that designed the Big Bertha golf club. And shifted completely in the golf and let his cue business go after that.
Yeah, well that was of course, Callaway and Eli Callaway, who was the founder of that company. We're gonna be interviewing on our golf podcast.
His son, because they just came out with a book about Eli Callaway and his history, so we'll kind of tell the history, I'm sure, of Big Bertha and so forth.
But it's come up a lot and it's got a lot of parallels to the game of pool in terms of adopting different technologies.
As it should.
So, you're coming off WPA World Nineball Championship number three. We've skipped over a whole lot of wins, but in 1998, as I counted, you won more times than Mr. Varner won with his 11th victory year.
So, what's going through your mind? What's happening in your life? How are you feeling about pool and your decision at this point?
Well, I'm in my prime, I think, and just enjoying it all.
And I felt that if I went in a tournament, as long as I don't do anything silly, I should win it. You know, as long as I don't be complacent, which I learned a lot about that in my snooker career too, you know, complacency.
So, I thought as long as I treat everyone with respect, play the right shots, you know, then good results happen. And, you know, and I worked at it. I'm still doing my practicing in Mother's Billiard Parlor on my corner table.
So, that didn't change. So, I was doing all the right things to do well.
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