Billy Incardona - Part 2 (Champagne Eddie, Minnesota Fats & the Greats of the Game)

Mike Gonzalez 0:16

How did Kelly get the nickname Champagne Eddie?

Billy Incardona 0:20

Because every time he won a tournament, he would say, let's break out the champagne. And he would he would drink champagne. He would drink champagne, you know. And there was one time in particular, he had a girlfriend by the name of Kelly. And her name was Kelly Kelly. Her first name was Kelly. Her last name was Kelly. And his name was Kelly. And he loved her. She was gorgeous. She was a gorgeous God. Beautiful girl. And Kelly was madly in love with her. He was playing, he was playing at the start of his tournament, and it was getting down to the finals with Danny Gartner playing One Pocket. And I'm I'm a real, real good friend of Kelly's, right? So he had an argument with his girlfriend, and he loved her so much, and she split up with him. And so I knew what was going to happen. He started to drink. Because he loved to drink. And he couldn't handle drinks. He couldn't, when he drank, he would pick the biggest guy in the bar or the biggest guy near him and start a fight with him. And that's the worst thing he could have done. And when I was with him, I'm the one that had saved him all the time. And I'm going to say, listen, he's drunk. Whenever he drinks, he loses all concept of reality. He doesn't mean me. I'm going to take him away from you. That's what you know what I mean. It's like getting back to the pool, okay? He got drunk, and he's going to play Danny Gardner's in the finals of the One Pocket at Stardust Hotel in Las Vegas. And I know that he doesn't have a chance. So I try to sober him up and I start giving him coffee and giving him massages and everything. And he's sweating and everything, and like it pours. That sweat's coming from his pores. That's how drunk he was. Well, he couldn't make a ball. He embarrassed himself so badly. But that but, anyways, if he would have won that tournament, he would have said, let's bring out the champagne. That champagne, Eddie Kelly, right there.

Mark Wilson 2:27

There you go.

Billy Incardona 2:28

Well, he was a great player. He passed not too long ago. But he was a great player.

Mike Gonzalez 2:34

Who were some of your other uh early influencers?

Billy Incardona 2:41

Influencers? I uh a lot of players I really admired. You know, I admired for different reasons. I admired Ronnie Allen because he was so colorful and he was such had the had the gift of gab. And he just charmed his opponents into playing them, you know. And he always has some crazy quicks, you know, which says things that would really, really, really make you laugh and love him. And I loved him for that. You know, I loved uh Ronnie Allen. And Ronnie Allen was one of one of our most colorful players in the game of a pool. Well, one of the most colorful players. Jersey Reddit, cornbread red. Those are guys that are really, really colorful, you know. And I loved all those guys. I admired their games as well, you know. But Eddie Kelly was special because he really had a great game, you know, that I admired. Luther Lasseter, I admired his game. Lou Peter Kana. Irving Crane, I admired his game.

Mark Wilson 3:41

Yeah.

Billy Incardona 3:42

I I played it, I played all these guys in tournaments. And uh but my mentor was Eddie Kelly. Yeah. Because I because I we lived in the same town. And uh we were we were very close friends.

Mike Gonzalez 3:56

You you must have had a few dealings with Rudolph Wanderone.

Billy Incardona 4:02

Yeah, I sure did. Minnesota Fats. Yeah, Minnesota Fats. Minnesota Fats used to hold court every day. What I mean by that, what I mean by that, he would sit around and tell stories about how he beat this guy, who it went, he went to Zanzibar and he beat, he beat the Prince and everything, you know. I mean, and people, kids, and players used to gather around and listen to on top. And he used to have earmen at the uh the in in the gatherings that would say, Yeah, I remember that happening fast. And that would just, you know, that would that would give them more energy. That would give them more energy, but more more creative stories that weren't true. One time in particular, in the Johnson City tournament, they got raided one year. And they got rated because the the word went out that there were players coming across state line to gamble in Johnson City. And so the FBI came in and they rated the tournament. Oh my. And they took everybody to court. You know, they they arrested everybody, they took everybody to court. And so, Minnesota Fats.

Mike Gonzalez 5:28

Wouldn't you love to have the video? Oh, I would love to met that video.

Billy Incardona 5:33

And he says, Lansing, he says, What are you doing? These guys don't have two nickels to rub together, okay? They're trying to make a living. You're gonna raid them, take them to court, and try to, you know, convict them of some stupid reason, okay? He said, Why don't you go out to these golf courses where they're betting tons of thousands of dollars every hole, okay? These guys here don't have two nickels to rub. And he went on and on and on, and they they they acquitted everyone.

Mark Wilson 6:04

He took them out of it.

Billy Incardona 6:06

I mean, but you have to hear the commentary, what he said, to really appreciate, and there's no way I can emulate him because no one ever could. But if you can get some uh um some uh film where he starts talking and listen to him, take that times 10. That's what he did in court. I mean, he's without a doubt the greatest. He's the greatest. He was the greatest promoter of all time.

Mike Gonzalez 6:37

Yeah, yeah. You know, you know, in a way, he he's the antithesis of Willie Moscone. I remember seeing Willie and and and and Fats, you know, that famous Howard Coasell thing. And you know, Moscone clear in a way a superior player, but there was a little bit of jealousy of Fats there, wasn't there? I I think I think Willie Moscone was a little I think Willie Moscone was a little envious of Fats for his popularity with the fans and so forth, don't you think?

Billy Incardona 7:08

Willie, Willie, I don't know if he was envious of him, but he certainly wasn't he didn't like him. Yeah because fats never really showed him the respect that he'd earned. Because every time they played or when they played, fats would always tell him, Oh, but you can't beat me, you can't do this, you know. I mean, the ball rolled off, that's all you want, blah, blah, blah. You know, he really didn't respect uh Moscone. And Moscone, the world respected him because he was the greatest one, uh straight pool player of all time, they say. But that's that's what he was back then, you know. He used to go to different cities all the time and played anyone that wanted to play, and I don't think he ever lost, you know. And but when he played Fats, it was on television, Fats really didn't respect him. And he should he showed a lot of disrespect to him when he when they played. So would you like him if you were Moscone? I wouldn't.

Mark Wilson 8:03

Yeah, I think there was a uh a petty resentment and jealousy. Fats would tell these stories, and they were so convincing because he told them so many times, you have to believe them himself. And no, it's true. And he would say, Wheelie Muscone, he heard I was here in Prairie Town, scared to put his foot across city lines. I might make him bet something. And the crowd would love it. Okay, the crowd would love it. And so, but uh, Fats is one of the only pool players that ever transcended mainstream billiards to move into he had a TV show in Hollywood called Minnesota Fast Chiefs Pool with the Stars. And he was the only guy that had the personality to carry this off. And so a lot of the regular pool players did harbor a little jealousy or resentment because of that, but nevertheless, it was the most entertaining guy ever. And so uh yeah, it was he was fun, he made pool fun. And then you remember he he would come to the tournament and have a young girl on each arm, and they'd be beautiful. And he'd say, You guys keep practicing. I'm driving a Deucember block long, you bums are walking, you know. I mean, and it would just be like that, you know, and it it there's no way everybody'd be cracking up in the practice room, and then a lot of times he was kind of right, you know, but it just he he loved pool.

Billy Incardona 9:18

Well, he put pool on the map. There's no question, you're 100% correct. Uh, you know, and everything was an exaggeration, but it was real to him. It was real to him because he believed it was real, because he was prospering with the gab that he had. It was prospering, okay, financially and and other ways as well. Okay, so therefore, he had to believe it because he kept saying the same things over and over and over. And he and you know, he could he could miss in the exhibitions, he could miss, and he would continue to go on and act like he never missed anything.

Mark Wilson 9:52

You know, he would just Yeah, he'd step up to the table and go, it just three rails, and he'd hit it, they'd be a diamond long, and go, table's a little off.

Billy Incardona 10:06

You know, with his show when he was real, he was a real showman. There was no question. He was a pool's greatest showman.

Mike Gonzalez 10:13

Yeah, yeah. Let's ask you about a few other guys that uh I know you had some dealings with. How about the Knoxville Bear?

Billy Incardona 10:20

I never played Eddie Taylor. Okay. Never played him. Matter of fact, I never really even met Eddie until later in life. You know, the Knoxville Bear. But uh as you well know, he was the greatest of all time playing Bangpool. Bugs, in my opinion, was second to him. But you can't tell them people in Chicago that, because uh you go into get into a fight. But uh Bugs was great as well, though, but Eddie Taylor was the best.

Mike Gonzalez 10:48

Leonard Bugs Rucker.

Billy Incardona 10:51

Yeah, I played him in in Pittsburgh. I read a story about that.

Mike Gonzalez 10:57

Well, let's hear this. Yeah, let's hear it.

Billy Incardona 10:59

Well, you know, like I can go on in in chronological order and tell you what happened to me when I was growing, getting older.

Mike Gonzalez 11:07

Well, we want to hear about bugs. Yeah, let's hear it. Tell us about bugs.

Billy Incardona 11:11

Okay, the year was 1962. I was nine years old. You know, and I was enjoying life and playing pool. Well, well, to kick it off, Papa Nolly, the bugs, and Eddie Taylor were the two best bad pool players in the world. Both played in the uh in the late 50s into the early 80s, carrying the title of the goat. In 1961, I was playing very good pool, being only 19 years old, playing in a pool room in downtown Pittsburgh. The pool room was on the second floor, and you had to walk up at least 30 stairs to reach the top. And as you walked up, your your your your footstep your footsteps echoed in the long hallway as you climbed up the stairs. And there's a mystique in all second floor pool rooms as you're climbing up the stairs, especially if the journey is is a long one up. It says you anticipate all the people gambling up there, who's gonna give their money away. These are the things that I would envision as I was walking up the second floor pool room. Yeah, second floor pool rooms are just a mystique as you walk up and never know what you're gonna see. It's not like you're walking right into someone to a pool room. You know, you a lot of crazy things go through your mind. Anyways, when when Bugs when Bugs entered the pool room, I was practicing playing on a gaffe table. I don't know if it was a gaffe table because all the tables in the room were played alike. They were all gaffed up. You know, here comes Bugs, who I didn't know. He was with another black player that played top knots bang pool as well. Of course, I didn't know or know of either of them. Bugs was watching me hit balls and he knew I was a decent player, so he asked me if I wanted to play some bang pool for 20 a game. Well, I actually played good bang pool, at least that's what I thought. So I said, sure. Well, we played about two hours and we were dead even. Bugs was upset because the table's banged different than any table we ever played on. He was irritated and said he really didn't want to play any more bangs, so I played some one pocket. I played very little in one pocket, but agreed to play. Well, in the next two hours he beat me five games, I lost $100 and quit. I then asked him if he wanted to play nine ball. He laughed and said they had to leave, but not before his friend asked me to play some one pocket. I wasn't feeling good about this. My gut was telling me to accept my losses and move on. I said, no thanks, I'll play nine ball. They turned around and walked down 30 step stairs shouting. Maybe some other time as they kind of laughed and giggled in a nice way as their footsteps echoed off the narrow hallway. Well, I felt a little foolish as I pondered what had just happened, so I laughed to myself and said, always listen to your gut. After that, every time I ran into bugs, we played something, and we had a very amical relationship still built off of respect. As the years passed, only then do you realize and understand the value of the camaraderie that is shared among good fellowship with special group of people when we when respect is earned. So uh that was my little story about but with bugs. That was my interesting to him.

Mike Gonzalez 13:56

Great great memories. Great memories.

Billy Incardona 13:59

Yeah. And you know, like uh you you really remember because there was no there was no animosity there, you know. I I I respected him, he respected me, and uh life went on, and we just shared that as we as we uh got older and we ran into one another. Yeah, and we we shared good fellowship. That's what uh that's what that's great about playing pool with with good people.

Mike Gonzalez 14:25

Yeah. Was there a player that uh you would enjoy just sitting and watching because they were just so good, so masterful?

Billy Incardona 14:34

Yeah, of course, Efren Reyes.

Allison Fisher 14:38

When was the first time you saw Efran?

Billy Incardona 14:42

Okay. My first Efren Reyes encounter, 1985. This was when he first came into the country, he went to Houston. He was with a couple guys from the Philippines, I guess. They were backing him. And it turned out they were really not so nice of people, okay? And so he was with a couple of uh Filipinos that came in to back him. Okay, I was 40, I was 42 years old when I first met and played Reds. It was in March of 1985. I was sitting at home when my phone rings, it was Larry Schwartz calling me to let me know that there was a Mexican-looking young man at the pool room looking to place the nine ball. So that was a time right after he came to Houston and played down there. This is like a week later, so I assumed that Larry was talking about Braves, or who had it, who was actually Morales. Cesar Morales.

Mike Gonzalez 15:34

Yeah, Cesar Morales, yeah.

Billy Incardona 15:36

So I said to Larry, are you sure he's a Mexican? Larry said, No, but he looks like he may be. I then said, I'm thinking it's Caesar Morales, the player that won the red tournament last week in Houston. You know, I said, Larry, tell him that there's an older man that would like to play him, and I'll be right down. I was thinking, this is how stupid I am, okay? So it's embarrassing. I said, I was thinking, I was thinking that I had an edge on him because I knew who he is. And he doesn't know me.

Mike Gonzalez 16:09

You see how that worked out for you?

Billy Incardona 16:12

Yeah. Okay. I forgot to remember that I haven't been playing enough pool to really compete. That way at that time, I was really into sports in Las Vegas. I was betting a lot of sports from real influential people, you know, and I was making a lot of money. And pool really wasn't on my, you know, agenda. That it wasn't on my menu of things to do. And so I but I still had my table in my home and I played a case. But when I got that phone call, that's how stupid I am. Not only didn't I realize I was going to be playing the greatest player in the world. Well, I thought I could play. So, anyways, I I drove to the pool room, which was in North Las Vegas, owned by Frank Torrey. He's a world-class precussion player. Now, Frank and I got along really well, and I knew I had the house man on my side in case I needed something. Here I go with the percentages again, right? Yeah, there you go. You know, never know. It's always good to know the house man because if you need something, he's a good guy to know. So Okay. Well, Frank and I got along really well. I knew the house man on my side on the okay. You never know. I arrived at the room, walked over to Morales, who was Reyes, and said that I would like to play some pool wolf you give me a decent spot. He asked me what I wanted, thinking to myself, well, I'll play some 10 ball, made me take the seven. Big mistake. So I said, Oh, I'll play some 10 ball, big mistake. I'm playing a game that I can't really run out in. Why do I want to play nine ball? Why ten ball, right? But here this is how this is how stupid I am. You know, I didn't think anything out. And I really dogged it. That's what you call really dogging it, where you don't really think things out. You know, I want to play six ball, not ten, nine ball. I'm certainly not ten ball. Anyway, uh, I'll say I'll I'll take the ten, I'll take the seven and ten and then I'll play some ten ball, which was a mistake. He said, What do you want to bet? I said, I'll play a race to eleven for two thousand. Tournament rule. Tournament rules. I had a lot of money because I won a lot of money with the sports, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 18:20

And so I think you should have raced in between the lampposts for five bucks.

Mark Wilson 18:25

Yeah. But you bring that too.

Billy Incardona 18:33

I just get past that.

Mike Gonzalez 18:36

All right.

Billy Incardona 18:37

So I go so we're we're racing November 2000, term of rules. I had already made up my mind. Now, this this this reflects back to what I said to you earlier. I said I never show my true speed when I strict playing. So I'd already made up my mind that I would start playing slow, not showing much speed, and figure it out from there. Okay, okay, here I go. On the first rack, I get a shot, run a few balls, and I play myself out of line on the five ball. I play safe, he kicks me safe. Okay, that's his introduction to me, his first shot. He kicks me safe. I make a bad kick, he runs out. Game two, he makes a ball on the break, plays safe on the one ball, and I manage to make the one ball, run to the seven ball, and miss. He gets to the table and runs out. I'm now I'm now I'm now saying to myself, well, you better start playing better because he seems like Stalling is in here is in his in his vocabulary. Now, for the remainder of the set, my game was struggling, which now became apparent that I had fallen in the dark place, but not quite which I wanted to believe. I lost 11 to 4. He asked me if I want to play another set. I said, okay. The second went basically the same as the first set, but I did manage to reach five games. After the second set I was was over, I didn't play like I didn't like playing 10 ball because not only had I not been playing much pool at that time, I was showing the rust of my game, so I figured I would make a new game. Now, this is where my smarts come in. Okay? He finally showed up.

Mike Gonzalez 20:31

Finally showed up.

Billy Incardona 20:32

So I figured, yeah, but it's not all good. So I so I figured I would play make a new game where it would be where it helped me get in stroke, and maybe that I could beat him. So I wanted to make a game that I could be at the table more and get in stroke, but looking at less ball. Make sense? Make sense, yeah.

Mark Wilson 20:55

We're all for it.

Billy Incardona 20:56

Okay. I said, I don't want to play any more ten ball, but I'll take the eight and the break and place a nine ball. Eight and a break and place a nine ball. Nobody on earth was ever breathing or live that could give me the eight and a break playing nine ball. No one. Positively sure, 100%. Anyway, just go on. Okay, figuring that I would get more opportunities playing a short game of nine ball, and that would aid me in my poor judgment of playing 10 ball, a game that I was wasn't really totally prepared to play. If he agreed to play, I felt strongly that no one in the world could beat me with the eight and a break. I was stuck 4,000 and I wanted to raise the bet, figuring if I won a couple of sets, he wouldn't quit because he would be stuck. So that was a good thought, right?

Mark Wilson 21:45

Yeah.

Billy Incardona 21:46

So far everything sounds good, right? Sounds good, right? I'm not optimistic here. So I asked, so I asked him to bet 3,000. He agreed to race to 11. Now I And my friend Larry Schwartz racking the balls for me. Now he wasn't going to do anything with the rack, but he was, I wanted to make sure I wasn't going to have someone else rack the balls that was going to do something to me. And I didn't want to rack him because that's too worrying on me. Racking the balls is tough, especially when, you know, my butt my back was bad even at that time. So I so Larry was racking the balls. I couldn't make a ball on the break. I was making balls on the break, less than a third of my breaks. And he was getting the first shot, two or three games. It's not Rocketstein to figure out how that turned out. He beat me 11 to 4 in the first set. Now I'm stuck 7,000. And I'm not feeling good at all. Things aren't working out like I had envisioned. The next set, again, we went went about the same as the first set. I lost 11 to 6. Now I'm stuck 12,000. So I assume you may be thinking, how much money can I afford to lose? Well, at that time I was betting baseball for very influential people who was making quite a bit of money. But not playing much poop because betting baseball was my purpose. I was betting for Doyle Brunson and Chip Reese. Google those guys, if you don't know who they are, if you have time. Google Doyle Brunson and Chip Reese.

Mike Gonzalez 23:16

Big time card players.

Billy Incardona 23:19

Best card players in the world. Okay? And what but they're betting sports because they have access to the greatest minds in sports handicapping that existed, and they were winning crazy money. Okay? Which sounds impossible to believe, but it's true. And I want a lot of money with them. Anyways, I was betting for Dora Bronson and Chip Reese, two high-roller poker players that was getting strong information. It was like stealing. Not really, but it was. Anyways, back to the game. Ray was on to beat me four straight sets for 3,000, and now I'm losing 18,000. I quit and said, I'll be back tomorrow and play another game, but not the same way. Well, I couldn't make balls on the break for several reasons. The pockets were tight, and that didn't help me, but the table just wasn't giving up balls. But the table in the back of the table we were playing on had bigger pockets, which had had a worn cloth. Well, I believed that bigger pockets would aid me in pocketing balls on the break. After Reyes left the pool room, I practiced a break on the other table and loved the action I was getting with pocketing balls. Pocketing balls on the average of three out of four breaks, and often pocketing multiple balls. The next day, Reyes and his backers came into the pool room. I asked Reyes to play on the table with the bigger pockets. He says, no, pockets big. I said I would take two game spot, raise the 15. This is when, remember, I told you how I matched up. I would try to say the things that would encourage people to agree with me and do what I wanted to do.

Mark Wilson 24:55

Yeah.

Billy Incardona 24:56

And love it. So he said, he says, he says, he says, no, pockets big. That was his way to say, no, the pockets are too big. I said, I would take two-day spot, race to 15, and the eight of the break, and play for 8,000. He said no, but it was a weak no. So he said no, but it wasn't, it wasn't a brilliant strong no. It was no. You know. So I knew I had him there when he said, no. He didn't say no, no. He didn't say that. He said, okay. So I said, so I said, you know, we haven't, I haven't in any set we played have gotten more than six games raced to 11. Not one time have I gotten more than six games. Now now we are racing to 13. Oh, 15, you know, you think I'm going to beat get 13 games? I couldn't get six more than six games racing to eleven. You think I'm going to get 13 games racing to 15? You think I'm going to get 13 games? I put my cue back in my case and he started to talk with the backers. And the fact he came to me and said, let's play. Well, I made balls on a break, like two, three balls on a lot of breaks, and at least one ball in just about every break. And I won the set 13 to 5. He didn't look at me. And when the set was over, he enjoyed his queue, put it in his case, and sat down. Needless to say, we were now at an impasse. However, I was still stuck 10,000, and I knew I wasn't going to get a good game from him after what just happened. He didn't even want to give me the eight and the break on the table. He blistered me on. With no game spot on the wire. His party was over. I'm stuck 10,000. I think feeling pretty good. Okay, we didn't say much after the match, but we both felt that, well, at least I felt that matching up another game would have not been my in my best interest based off of the reluctance to negotiate. So I shook his hand and we sort of smiled at one another and they left. After that and first encounter, we met again in Chicago several years later. But that's my first encounter with Rez.

Mike Gonzalez 27:08

Yeah.

Billy Incardona 27:08

Okay. I ended up losing 10,000. I thought I was going to flow play him with somebody stupid. You know. He took me to school. He took me to school. And then later on I took him to school, but I didn't get even.

Mike Gonzalez 27:25

And you felt good about it.

Billy Incardona 27:27

Yeah, I actually did feel really good about it. You know, I mean, I at least I established a little bit of integrity and and and and and and dignity. Yeah.

Allison Fisher 27:38

You were brave coming back to him. Okay, hold on. The next day, you were brave.

Billy Incardona 27:44

Well, I wasn't brave, Alison. Thank you. I appreciate that. But I wasn't brave because I knew the result before I played. Remember, I said I practiced on the table, I broke the balls, and our balls were raining in the pockets. They were bigger pockets. I was again the eight in the break. And if all would have lost there, we wouldn't be talking now. I would have committed suicide.

Mark Wilson 28:06

Oh Lord, that's funny.

Billy Incardona 28:11

I have a story about Ephraim Reyes. I'll tell you what it was, okay? This is a great story. This is a great, great story. The last call for Nineball in Atlantic City. I was sitting in the practice room. And this is after Efren and I played a lot of one pocket together. We knew one another really well. We respected one another. We were really good friends. We challenged one another countless number of times. We had a lot of respect for one another. And we liked one another. I'm sitting in the practice room, last call for an iron ball. There's eight or nine gold crown tables in the practice room. And they're and they're very spaciously set apart. I was sitt directly in front of this one gold crown table reading the paper, and in the in the practice room came Ephrain Reeds. There was no one in the room but me. And now me and him. So he walked into the room. He never looked at me. I looked at him and I was begging him to say something or give me some acknowledgement, but he never looked at me. And he knew I was there. So I just watched him. Like I mentioned, I was sitting in front of this gold crown table. I was no more than four feet, four or five feet or six feet from the side of the table sitting in a chair. He got a tray of balls. He threw them on the table that I was sitting in front of. All fifteen balls he threw on half the table. Not one ball randomly threw them off the tray. You know, took them out of the tray, threw them on half the table. Not one ball went past his eye pocket. Not one ball. He then put Q ball in hand. And he ran them all in rotation. But how he ran them was unbelievable. It was so fascinating. There were obviously clusters of balls they needed to effectively deal with, considering only half the table how saw the balls, and with this understanding, he broke up clusters, playing precision off of caroms, while freeing up balls at the same time. It was truly amazing. He then threw fifteen more balls over half the table and did it again. Never once looking at me. That's thirty straight balls without a miss, exhibiting precise position play off of caroms. It was crazy good. He then did it again for the third time. That's forty-five balls without missing. It was a private showing of greatness. Well, yes, he did. He did it again for the fourth time. That's sixty balls, all run in rotation without missing. I sat there and mesmerized in total disbelief. He then unjointed his queue, quietly putting it back in his case, and exited the room. Never once did he even glance at me. What really frustrates me if if there was no one else there to witness the greatness that he exhibited. No, and now I told this story many times during commentary in tournaments that I commented on. It's been validated to some extent. It's 100% true. Yeah, that's the exhibition that impressed me more than anything I've ever seen anyone do on a pool table. I mean, the way he ran those balls, the cluster that he broke up as he played position off of carriage after breaking up clusters was just super, super good. You couldn't, I just couldn't believe anybody could do this. 60, 60 straight balls without a miss. And who knows how much longer he could have gone without a miss. He couldn't. Yeah. So that's my story, Allison. Yeah, that that that exhibition impressed me more than anything I've ever witnessed on a pool table.

Mark Wilson 32:03

His artistry of managing secondary object balls to gain position or never expose himself to risk when he goes into a cluster. It's amazing. And it comes from the billiards background. You know, he played a lot of billiards, not just three-cushion, but also one cushion, two cushion, balk line, and caroms. And you don't see that.

Billy Incardona 32:23

Balk line gave him a lot of finesse touch and everything that he needed to show what he can do on a pool table.

Mark Wilson 32:31

Yeah.

Billy Incardona 32:31

You know, that no one else has ever done. I've never seen anyone on a pool table do the things, the intricate things that he would do on a pool table, playing position off of carams and different things. He has a total understanding of the interactions involved. I mean, uh just unbelievable. That was a good one. That was a good one.

Mike Gonzalez 32:55

Well, it was a good one. It still is a good one, I'm sure. They all are good ones.

Billy Incardona 32:58

Well, you know what I'm saying, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Mark Wilson 33:03

Can we go back to Johnston City when, like, say when Billy won the nine ball event and the players of that time and what the feeling was and and where he was at with his game. Had he been on the road, or is this his first venture away from Pittsburgh in a serious tone? Or you follow what I'm saying, Billy?

Billy Incardona 33:23

I remember when I won the nine ball in Johnson City. I played la well, I remember playing Lassiter there. That was my one of my most memorable matches playing Lassiter there. I beat him 11 to 10. Uh wow. Yeah. And then I played Lassiter in the final tournament in the final match in the world tournament in Pittsburgh, and he beat me there. I played played Puckett in that tournament too when I won that tournament. And uh that's when Danny won the all-around, and Boston Shorty won the one puck. Yeah.

Mark Wilson 33:55

1972.

Mike Gonzalez 33:57

Tell our listeners about the venue at Johnson City. It's just a little small town in southern Illinois. Where were you playing back in the day? Was it a big place, small place?

Billy Incardona 34:07

Well, it was in the showbook show bar. The show bar was a tavern. Okay. And they set up the most ideal venue for playing pool there ever was. It was a big open pit. And the bleachers were were were elevated all the way up to like maybe 15, 18 roads around it. Okay. And there was there were I believe there were three tables in the pit. Three tables. And you could see all the action. It was it was pretty condensed down. It was it wasn't a large room. Well, you can see all the action on all three tables. That's something I should remember.

Mike Gonzalez 34:54

Yeah. Yeah.

Billy Incardona 34:56

But I believe it were two tables in the pit. And they probably housed about I'd say maybe 300 people, 400 people, maybe at most. 300 people. But you could but it was just like a private showing. That's how exclusive it was, you know. I mean, it was just it was a great, uh, a great, great venue. Yeah. You know, just happened with you. The energy there was fantastic, you know. It was great.

Allison Fisher 35:29

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