Darren Appleton - Part 3 (Inside the Mosconi Cup—Leadership, Rivalry and Team Europe)

Allison Fisher 0:14

You were really good in the Moscone Cup teams because you were like a bit of a leader to them, weren't you? Ging them up and I remember that watching you. You would be the fiery person getting them all going, much like Jason does now with the European team.

Darren Appleton 0:27

Yeah. I think before me, we didn't really have that big leader in the European team. I think that was a downfall. Well, if you look at the American team back in the old days, Mark, you had like obviously Johnny's a big leader, Earl Strickland, uh Rodney Morris, big characters, you know what I mean? Where Europe, I don't think we ever had that. I probably, yeah, they're all like a little bit nicey nice, in my opinion. Very European. Very European. Not in a bad way, it's just the way they are, like Ralph Suke, Niels Fine, that they do everything quite a bit. Uh so when I come along, I sort of brought that bit of character, that little bit of personality to the team. Because the first year I played was 2009, and we got beat actually. We had an amazing team. We had it was me, Mika Himonen. At the time was probably the best player in the world. You had Ralph Suke, who was like ranked number one in Europe. You had Niels Fey and he just won the Wool Straight Pool championship. That's a very strong team, yeah. And we had Tarsen Ollman, who uh was like at that time one of the best players. So on paper, I think that's our best team we've ever had, in my opinion. But the the best players don't always met the best team, right? Um that's what happened, really. Alex Laley was the captain, and I think Alex Laley was a bit intimidated at that time by by the big characters in the team, and I was a bit intimidated to be fair. And I come away from that Muscoving Cup, we lost, and I thought I'm never gonna do that again. I I I was too like in the background, you know what I mean? I was too in the background because I was too much respect for Ralph, too much respect for Mika, uh Torsten and Niels. But I thought there's no way I'm gonna do that again. So when I I played in England teams with English pool and everything else, and I was always lead from the front and just get stuck in, you know what I mean? So I thought that's what was lacking that week. So when it comes to 2010, just trying to think, uh, 2010 was in York, uh London, and uh so home turf for you, yeah. Home turf, and uh that's when Johan came back to the European captaincy. And yeah, I just said look, I'm gonna I'm gonna lead the team by the front. Uh I told Joan that. I said, look, uh, I want to be on first, I want to play Shane, all that stuff. I wanna I I want to get the crowd going.

Allison Fisher 2:31

Oh, I remember you and Shane, you had some great matches. You got in his head a lot, didn't you?

Darren Appleton 2:36

Yeah, I had like I think in the singles I was like 6-1 against him in singles, which is amazing, yeah. Because yeah, I mean obviously he's one of the best players ever, isn't he? But he just brought the best out of me because I like the challenge of playing Shane because he brings the best out of you. I had the ultimate respect for him. So I always looked at it as a challenge where so I guess once you start beating somebody, then obviously it's going to get in their head a little bit, and yeah. Obviously, I'm full of confidence, so but it could have easily worked the other way if Shane was beating me early, early, then obviously it might work the other way. So it's just the way it goes sometimes. That happens in sport, doesn't it?

Mike Gonzalez 3:09

I think coming into the Moscone Cup as you did in 2009, the the parallel for me in golf is being on the Euro team in 1983. Because after 1983, things changed really dramatically. And so you you you look at the Euro Sevy, you see. Well, so who are you? Are you Sevy, are you Faldo, or you Longer, or are you Lyle, or are you Wosdom?

Darren Appleton 3:32

I don't I think probably a little bit of both between uh Sevy and Faldo, I guess. But Sevy's different in it, so I can't even compare myself to Sevy, can you? Um on a on a pull scale, I think, yeah. I'm like uh yeah, I just like to bring it to the team. I I'm very vocal in the team, let's say, in the team room. The one thing with me is that I never took my own disappointments back to the team room. Uh so if I got in a bad beat, let's say against Johnny or whatever, uh, I'd never go back to the team room and that guy's waiting to play, and I'm going in there throwing my cues about and complaining about this. I'd never do that. I'd wait until they've left the room and then I'd have a bit of a scream up. Uh but that's part of me on. You know what I mean? Where when you're playing singles, you were you you have all these like whingers, you know what I mean? You complain a lot and you're crying like a baby, you make loads of excuses. But in the team environment, I never did that in the team environment. I thought never bring it back to the team room. So when we're having these meetings, I'd like to have my own little my own little team uh thing going on, get get the guys going, make sure that everyone's alright, make sure if they need any help with their game. So, like, look, we all struggle sometimes. If it's something technical, I'd try and help them technically a little bit. Yeah, I remember like Neil struggling one year, and I we we we made one or two little tweaks to his stroke, and that was it. He went he went and played like the Neil's fine, we all know. But he could do the same thing for me, or Mark could do the same thing for Johnny, it's just the way it is. So I I like all that stuff, you know what I mean? Like helping people and making sure everyone's in a good frame of mind. Like uh I remember Alban Aushan when he first came into the team, very quiet, you know what I mean, very shy. So I felt as if I I took him under my wing a little bit. And so I I like all that stuff. I like to lead by the front and then on the table, if you win, show some emotion. But it for me it just come natural. I never tried to do it on purpose, it just like when I look back at some of my celebrations, it's a bit cringe, really. It's a bit embarrassing when you when you look back, innit? You know, where someone like Jason, sure, I feel like he enjoys all that. He likes watching himself back and seeing all that stuff and thinking, oh god, you know what I mean? Uh but sometimes it's an out-of-body experience playing in the Moscone Cup. It's hard to explain. It's like the only tournament where you behave like a five-year-old, really, and get away with it. It's different if you win the world championship and you jump on the table, which I have done. I mean, that's just pure emotion. But the Moscone, you're like a child, really, it's just mental. Yeah, but you can't help it, it's the crowd, innit? It's the crowd. If you take the crowd away from the Moscone, it'd be boring.

Mike Gonzalez 5:50

Yeah, yeah.

Darren Appleton 5:51

The crowd, it's like football, like soccer. I mean, we aren't the crowd, it's such a boring game to watch. I mean, if you watch soccer during Covid when there was no crowd, it's just shocking, you know what I mean? And pulls the same, we are a crowd, it's it it it's nothing, is it?

Allison Fisher 6:04

It's just it's amazing how that that tournament affects everyone, isn't it? It really is.

Darren Appleton 6:10

Pull, I mean, the the the the Mosconi Cup for me is the pinnacle of anyone's career, regardless of being on the biggest stage of all, you know what I mean? It's not the biggest tournament to win, but it's the best event to be involved in, without a doubt. Yeah, it's just unbelievable. Like Mark's captain, the American team. It's just even if you win or lose, it's just a privilege to be there, really. And even just going as a fan, you still enjoy going as a fan. And I'm not a massive watcher of pool these days, but I I do enjoy the Moscone Cup and uh I like team events like the World Cup of Paul. I love the World Cup pool. They had it the last three years, but like the World Team Championships, Alison. I I really enjoy them with with you, uh Kelly and uh Jason. It's fun, you know what I mean? It's uh different. It's nice when you win with a group of people, you know what I mean?

Mike Gonzalez 6:51

So, how nervous, how nervous were you getting over that first shot in 2009 at the Moscone Cup?

Darren Appleton 6:56

Yeah, it's mental. The very first rack you play in the Moscone Cup is unbelievable because you have the team match where you play one rack each. Like you rot you rotate, you play one rack each, it's the most nerve-wracking you ever be. Every year, not just that one year, but every year is the same. Like the very first rack you play, it's just it's an out-of-body experience. You just rely on your fundamentals and your basics. That's the only thing you can do, and you you just hope the ball goes in the direction you want it to go in. Seriously, and then but after that, you sort of settle down. Like once you get to the doubles, you can sort of interact a lot more, you get more opportunities at the table, and then you start to relax a little bit. You you never fully relax. It's like the best way to explain the Moscone Cup for me, anyway, is that every rack feels like a deciding rack to win a tournament. I think that's the best way to explain it. It's like playing a final rack to win a major tournament every every every rack you play, really. It's crazy.

Mike Gonzalez 7:50

Yeah, well, starting with that Euro team win in 2010, and by the way, you were named the tournament MVP that year. You guys then ripped off seven straight wins.

Darren Appleton 8:00

Yeah, I mean, I was involved in all seven as well. Uh still hold the record for that. I think if Jason wins it this year, he'll equal the record for seven in a row. But uh, yeah, it was amazing. But yeah, I think that was the start of it, 2010. Because you had people like me and Carl Boys in the team. We bring like the fun to the team room, uh, bring that little bit of character. Uh so I think people like Ralph, Meek, and Niels, they enjoyed that. We relax them a little bit, let them just bring them out their shell a little bit, really. Nick Vandenberg, great team player, might not be the best player on the table, but off the table, unbelievable. And but people don't see that stuff, you know what I mean? Uh so yeah, it's just amazing. It's like and the friendship you build from the Moscone Cup's amazing as well. So, yeah, you and memories, in it. It's all it's all about memories, really, isn't it?

Allison Fisher 8:44

Yeah, definitely.

Darren Appleton 8:45

You can have all the money in the world and all the trophies, but the memories are the most important thing.

Mark Wilson 8:49

I always say it's a career-defining event that if you shine there, that that stays with you forever. It's just one of those things on your resume that everybody knows. And when we got to 2014, Europe had been beating us quite uh handily. And so Darren was my biggest advocate to be the captain. I'll never forget that. I always uh respected that and appreciated it. Unfortunately, it didn't work out, but it wasn't through lack of effort, it was just that uh it's hard for the team to buy into coaching when they're so used to being individual.

Darren Appleton 9:23

Yeah, but you were a bit lucky as well because you come up against great teams. Um yeah, yeah. Yeah, I mean we we we were blessed to have Johan, really. I mean I mean Johan's just I don't know, he's he's got something about he's got that little touch, but you can't find it. I was just gonna say that. Why is it? I think it's like how it makes you feel. It's that it's not what he does on the table. I mean, Mark could probably Marker can teach you more than Joan, let's say technically and all that stuff.

Allison Fisher 9:51

Yeah, but on from the sidelines, he looks like he's very involved, isn't it?

Darren Appleton 9:54

No, he's just he's just he's like a father figure, you know what I mean? That's the best way to explain it. He's like a father figure. You you look at him and you think he's just got something about him, and it put his arm round you and you think, oh, it's alright, isn't it? He's sort of like I I remember struggling one year, I think it was was it 2010? Yeah, I was playing Dennis Hatch and I was struggling in this match. I played unbelievable that Moscone Cup, but this particular match, I was 4-1 down at the break, a race to five, so I'm probably gonna lose. But we took the time out for the adverts, and Johann's come and grabbed me and he's put his arm round me, and he's just saying, look, just relax, one ball at a time. Uh you know who you are, just get in your little bubble, take one ball at a time. It doesn't matter if if you lose, you're still playing great. Well, you're gonna get another opportunity tomorrow, all that stuff, blah blah. But it's just the little things like that, you know what I mean? Just making it it it's okay if you lose, you know what I mean? And then when I went back out there, I just played unbelievable, you know what I mean? I end up winning 5-4. So it's just little things like that, and then it's so it is I think it's saying the right things at the right times to people and knowing that that guy's in your corner, you can feel his presence, and then he is very disciplined, he's very disciplined. So if you're not at breakfast at 8 a.m., he's knocking on your door at 5 past eight, you know what I mean? All that stuff. So I I like that, especially in a team environment. Uh so it's very very disciplined, but very fair, and uh yeah, he he he he praised you when you need praise, but he also knew what to say when you were struggling, which is very important, innit?

Allison Fisher 11:21

Uh do you think he do you think he talked to each player differently because you're all different individuals and need different things?

Darren Appleton 11:27

Yeah, I doubt. I remember 2012 when Chris Melling just lost his mother. Uh Chris just lost his mother, so Chris is like very close, like Chris was a mummy's boy. And uh Chris was really struggling in the Mosconi Cup 2012, and uh the first two days he was having a nightmare. Uh and then Johan took him outside, he went outside for like an hour or two, uh, had a walk, all that stuff. Chris came back. The last the last two days he played unbelievable. He ended up getting the MVP, and we end up winning 11-9. And Chris Chris credits Johan for all that. I don't know what they said, whatever that they he discussed with him, but he definitely did something for Chris because he was awful the first two days, then the last two days he played like Superman. So just little things like that. It's just uh it's not it's not always on the table, is it? It's what you do off the table that's the most important thing. Yeah, definitely. We all can kick and play safe and everything else, but it's between the ears, isn't it? It's all between the ears, really.

Mike Gonzalez 12:21

I think our listeners would recognize all of these names, starting with Darren Abelton, MVP in 2010. Then listen to the next few MVPs here. Niels, and then you mentioned Chris. Niels, Neils, Neils, three years in a row, and then Alban, and then uh in 17 Joshua Filler, who must have been relatively new on the scene then, probably, right?

Darren Appleton 12:44

Yeah, well, I mean, whoever wins the MVP is gonna have a good time and play well. I'm not a massive fan of the system because they do it on a point system. So you get one point for a singles win and half a point for a doubles uh win, which I didn't even know this, Mark. I didn't even know how they ranked the Moscow in the Cup MVP until around 2013. Uh, because there was one year where Ralph won, I think it was 13, where Ralph won five out of five, I'd won, I think I'd won four out of five, Neils had won like four out of five, Mika won four out of five, because it was a year where it was the Legends edition, so we we won like 11-2 or 11-3, so everyone had a great record, and I'm thinking, oh, and Neils got the MVP, which whatever, I didn't really care about the MVP, but but I'm thinking, well, like, why is Ralph not won the MVP? So I asked Matron why Ralph, it's because Neils had played an extra singles than Ralph, so he gets that extra one point, you know what I mean? So even though the they'd won the same amount of matches, which I did also, uh Neils had Niels had played that extra singles. That's why he won the MVP. Because I was amazed that Ralph didn't win it that year. So it's just so it's all opinions, in it. I just think with the MVP, I think the opposing captain should pick the MVP. Because then I think it's fair, you know what I mean? Because not always the best player gets the MVP, in my opinion. But it is what it is. I mean, personally, I'd uh to me it was all about the team and the the the team winning.

Mike Gonzalez 14:06

So yeah, it's what it is. Before we uh leave Moscone Cup, guys, uh a couple things, Allison, Mark. Any other reflections on your experience with the Moscone Cup? Then we'll hear from Darren in terms of what he expects to happen here in the near term over the next few years. Is there going to be a sea change in uh momentum or is it gonna continue to be Europe? So, Mark, uh first of all, with you, you were you were captain for the the the last three Moscone Cups that Darren played in 2014, 15-16. Any other reflections on that and kind of where it's where it's gone from what you and Allison first experienced way back at the beginning?

Mark Wilson 14:43

I would say the event in 14 that Blackpool and the Tower Circus was the most unbelievable fandom because it's built very sheer and it's from the 1800s, and the fans are right on top of you, and it's you come out from the animal pits down below, which still smell like animals, by the way. And the lights are bright and it's so intimidating, and then you got the uh Euro fans there chanting, and my goodness, we just wanted to wilt. I mean, it was just like you gotta be kidding here. I just hope we get out of here alive. And then uh, you know, that early Moscone Cups didn't have that type of frivolity and fandom and excitement. They had, you know, they had a smattering of polite audience. It wasn't as raucous and with the soccer cheers and everything that were going on. So that was a that was an awakening there. Didn't you think that was uh maybe the most interesting Moscone Cup venue was the Tower Circus, Darren?

Darren Appleton 15:41

Yeah, that was amazing. That Tower Circus. Yeah, it was like a it was like a bull ring, wasn't it? It's like a proper proper right round circle, all the theatre theatre. Yeah, it was an amazing venue. It's a shame they never had it back there. But I guess it because it was like a thousand seats, but yeah, that they obviously got bigger and bigger and they wanted bigger venues, so they went to the Ali Palais. Uh the Ali Palais looks the Ali Palais's good, but to me it's not it's not the best venue I played in. Even though there was 2,500 people when I played, I I preferred the atmosphere at your call with six, seven hundred people. It was more people was on top of the table, it was just amazing.

Allison Fisher 16:18

It sounds like the crucible. I haven't been to where you're talking about. It sounds like that though.

Darren Appleton 16:23

A little bit, yeah. Yeah, like the uh that very similar.

Allison Fisher 16:26

Yeah.

Mark Wilson 16:27

And very ornate. You know, it's all gilded gold seating, and the ceiling was ornate, and it was just it was just stunning. I used to have a cup of coffee in the arena when nobody was there. Just like, I can't believe we're playing here. I mean, it's incredible.

Darren Appleton 16:42

And Blackpool's actually a good location for the Moscow. Yeah, I think it would be too. The fans, really, not the players, but the fans for sure.

Mark Wilson 16:51

I remember Darren, wouldn't that well we'd be in the practice room about 50 yards from the venue, and the crowd would be out there stomping the feet and uh the walls would be shaking literally. Oh god.

Allison Fisher 17:00

Wow.

Mark Wilson 17:01

It was intimidating.

Allison Fisher 17:02

I would love to have seen that one or been there just to see what it was like. I was curious about what the what the captains, the Johannes, Marks, what you do in the players' room when they're in there getting ready for their matches. What's the captain's job at that point, would you say?

Mark Wilson 17:20

Well, uh I think much like what Darren said about supporting the players, and then you always think about what could the captain do to influence the outcome, and it's f not that much because it's still an individual thing at the end, but always kept the guys loose, encouraged them. We worked on our break, we we had uh, you know, we we discussed the days lineup, uh, usually got the acustats from Pat Fleming, and we went over things that we wanted, you know, like everything's kicking along when you go two cushions, so you gotta factor that in. And then, you know, the positivity of the the whole thing. And then one time in particular, Europe hadn't showed up yet, and I was in the uh European practice room, and I pirated their five ball just to absolutely distract them. It was gonna be annoying, and they're looking everywhere, and we could hear them through the wall say, Where's this fireball? So then I had the fireball, just and my players are loving it, and so you know, to keep it fresh, and then I didn't know how to surreptitiously get it back. So they had a bowl of oranges in there, and when everybody was gone, I put it in the bowl of oranges. Oh, yeah. But I think that was a big part of it because you have such renegades. I I didn't realize that when you're the Moscone Cup captain, you're not really coaching pool, it's more of like your father and a mother and a banker and a travel agent and a psychologist and all this weird dynamic because you think they're pros, but really they're just 14-year-old boys who have tremendous skills. And so that's kind of I know Johan had pictures up, and uh he was very uh inspirational with all, you know, he'd have a picture of Darren up with every title he's ever won in the practice room.

Allison Fisher 18:59

Really?

Mark Wilson 19:00

Oh yeah, things like that, little touches that yeah, you know, created that positive atmosphere.

Darren Appleton 19:07

Yeah, he he always had like a theme as well, like so he'd he'd uh like like if we played in London, he would use like the uh he would like the he'd use like the royalty sort of things in like from from like the the old days, you know what I mean, like uh Spartacus and all that rubbish, you know what I mean? Yeah, he'd have like Nikos as Spartacus and me as like Bruce Lee or something. With like Oh how funny Fist of Furies or uh sorry uh cues cues of fury. So it'd have like a little theme for you, you know what I mean? The older egos. Yeah, just just like boost our egos a little bit.

Allison Fisher 19:44

Yeah.

Darren Appleton 19:45

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 19:46

Alison, you wish you could have played more than one?

Allison Fisher 19:48

Oh, definitely. From what it's become, yeah, absolutely. Ours was in that skating rink, wasn't it? In in where was it exactly? Oh the roller rink in Roller Bowl. Somewhere in Essex, I think. Yeah, yeah. Don't you think? Yeah, it's completely different. And I had no idea what it would become or what it really was at that time. I was just turning up okay, you show up here and you're gonna play and represent and I'm represent Europe and I'm looking, I'm thinking, how do you play this game? What are we supposed to do here?

Darren Appleton 20:20

The year you played. What did you play with Alex Higgins?

Allison Fisher 20:25

Who was on our team? Steve and Jimmy. Steve and Jimmy, yeah. And then um Tom Storm, I think, Ralph Souquet, maybe.

Mark Wilson 20:34

Lee Tucker.

Allison Fisher 20:35

Lee Tucker, yeah, back in the day.

Mark Wilson 20:37

Oliver Ortman.

Allison Fisher 20:38

Francisca Starr, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 20:41

Jimmy was on that team.

Allison Fisher 20:44

Yeah. But anyway, yeah, I mean it was a nice team. I just had no clue what I was doing. Yeah, it's a shame.

Darren Appleton 20:51

But it's a shame they didn't have a ladies' a ladies' Moscone Cup like golf. You like they have the Solar. I should have.

Allison Fisher 20:57

We've talked about it for years, just never done it. But Matt Room don't really, I don't think, care for that side of the sport.

Mike Gonzalez 21:04

Yeah, yeah. So Darren, what's gonna what's gonna happen this year and in the near term? Is the momentum shifting or or not?

Darren Appleton 21:10

What with the Moscone Cup?

Mike Gonzalez 21:13

Yeah.

Darren Appleton 21:13

Well, I mean uh no respect to the last few captains America. I don't agree with playing captains for a start. No respect to Skylar, he's a great player, but I don't look at him as a captain, let's say. I think he he needs to focus more on playing. I think he's a much better player when you just focus on playing. It's hard to do both, seriously. It's hard to, especially when you're the underdogs as well. It's not like Jason's job's a bit easier or it was a bit easier, because he loves all that. He loves like the pantomime stuff. He can cope with it well. He's he's a multitasker as Jason. He likes to like he'll remember somebody from two years ago who who he spoke to at the Moscow any cup and not seen him since. He'll see him again two years later, he'll go, Hello, John, how are you doing? I said, I said, How do you remember his name? It was a A couple of years ago, I said, have a day off. That's unbelievable. So Jason Hudson, he's a big character, you know what I mean? So where Kyle for me is a bit more like he stays in his lone little bubble a little bit. So I don't agree with playing captain. That was a big mistake from America, in my opinion. And then Jeremy Jones, I look at Jeremy more of a coach than a captain. I think he's obviously a great coach, but I don't look at him as a captain. Uh yeah, it's like Mark says it's captains is different to coaching. So they don't need coaches, do they really? Let's be honest. It's like they only need coaching if they're really struggling. So yeah, I think Johan's a great move for them. Obviously, he's got success with the American team. So the good thing is that you know the team's gonna be ready and they're gonna be all in place to play well. Whether they're good enough to win is a different thing. The only thing I would say in their favour is that I think they'll be a lot more prepared than the European team. I feel like the Europeans have took their the way I'm looking at it from the outside right now, no one's speaking about the Moscone Cup from the European side. Nobody seems to be that into it like there was before, regards trying to qualify. It's not really on anybody's radar. I mean, Jason seems like he's lost his mojo with it a little bit. So it'd be interesting to see who the Moscow New Cup team will be. It's not like I feel like the Europeans are not breaking a leg to try and get in the team this year. That's what I'm saying. I think obviously Joshua's there. I did see a little bit of a ranking the other day. I think Joshua's probably nailed on, but it looks like there's gonna be a maybe a couple of newcomers, Oliver Oliver from uh Hungary, is it? Shh Lucky. Yeah, it looks like he's got a great chance to qualify. Looks like one or two others like Jonas or uh Moritz, people like that, will qualify. So there could be uh two or three great players not in the European team.

Allison Fisher 23:42

How do you feel about Fedor playing for America?

Darren Appleton 23:46

Well, it's a tricky one, isn't it? What the the thing I didn't like is that the year the first year he played for America, what I didn't like is that he qualified all year to get in the European team and he was gonna qualify. He was like number one or number two in the European rankings, and then in October decided that they're gonna switch him and let him play for America, which wasn't fair on the American players who were trying to qualify because I think I think Billy Fort missed out because of that reason, because he he took Billy Fort's spot, so I would imagine Billy wasn't very happy, and then obviously the European it benefited, I think was David Alcadi actually who benefited with Fedor shipping over. So I didn't really like it. I feel like you need to be citizenship at least. I think you should be a citizen at least.

Allison Fisher 24:28

And well, I think in other sports usually you have to have the passport of the country.

Darren Appleton 24:33

He played with uh what do you call it, a green card. Green card.

Allison Fisher 24:36

I have I have a green card, so I I could play for America, but it's not really do you think that was a metro move or what he really wanted?

Darren Appleton 24:44

Do you think I think well obviously with what's going on with the war and everything, I sort of understood it a little bit because he doesn't really have a flag, does he? So the FedO one's a bit it's a little bit different for me compared to Tarston. The Torsten one I'm not I'm not happy about.

Allison Fisher 24:57

Uh because he's trying to play for America, right?

Darren Appleton 24:59

Well, he's played for Europe, he's played for Europe three times and he's referred to Germany his whole life, he's won tournaments for Germany his whole life. So I don't know, I don't agree with it. I feel like he's the thing with me is that you've got these young kids coming through and they want to get a scony cup, and I feel like you've got a 50-year-old guy taking one of those spots because it looks like he's gonna qualify as well. Uh, but for me, it takes that little bit of rivalry away from the tournament as well, because now you're gonna have two more or less two Europeans in the team plus Johan, so that's 50% of your team, plus European. So I feel like it's losing that like when we played Mark, we had that nice rivalry where we didn't really speak to each other during the old tournament. After the tournament, we have we have a beer, no problem. But we had that rivalry, we sort of hated each other for that one week. Well, I feel like that's that's gone now, you know what I mean?

Allison Fisher 25:49

What about then maybe opening it up to South America, North America?

Darren Appleton 25:55

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of talk, isn't there? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

Mark Wilson 26:00

I'll opine on that because I detest that idea. Why don't we just try working harder and do it like we used to do it when we won? We were 10 and 2.

Darren Appleton 26:08

It's like the Ryder Cup, isn't it? The Ryder Cup in the old days, Europe had no chance. So they sorry, Great Britain, it was Great Britain and Ireland, so they changed. That's right, that's right, GB and I, right? Europe. So obviously then it became a 50-50 contest. But the Ryder Cup's just amazing, it doesn't matter who wins, really. It's the it's the occasion. But the thing with Ryder Cup, I try and compare the two because they're very similar, is that 90% of the Europeans what play golf live in America. But you're never going to see them play for America in the Ryder Cup, are you? So why should pool be any different? I just don't get it, really. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. It's like Mark says, I think America should be able to find five players good enough to compete.

Allison Fisher 26:49

That is the problem. That is the ultimate problem, isn't it?

Darren Appleton 26:52

No, but they do have the players out there, but I think there's players coming through as well. You know what I mean? There is young guys coming through. I think there's got to be patient. I think they've got to stick to what they're doing, and uh yeah, I think once you start bringing Canada into play and South America, I think it it loses everything. It's a little bit like the World Cup of pool. It really uh really upset me when they changed the England team to Great Britain or the World Cup of pool. That's like doing it with a soccer. You know the soccer that we have the World Cup, you have Scotland, Ireland, Wales, England, you start bringing G B instead of all that, you just text the history away out of the game. You just ruin the history of the sport.

Allison Fisher 27:29

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