Justin Bergman - Part 3 (Doing It His Way)

Mike Gonzalez 0:14

You're a bit of a rebel.

Justin Bergman 0:16

Yeah, and that I think that's probably what drew me to fool. You know. I didn't want to get up at eight in the morning every day and, you know, do the same thing every day.

Mark Wilson 0:27

And when you say rebel, I think it's really non-conforming. Okay, it's not in a bad way. He's a super guy. You're not a conformist.

Mike Gonzalez 0:36

Millions of people get up at eight o'clock and they go to work and they come home at five and they sit down for dinner at six and they watch TV for two hours and go to bed at nine and they do it rinse and repeat, right?

Justin Bergman 0:46

Yeah, I just I didn't want to live that way. You know, I definitely didn't want to be uh boring.

Mike Gonzalez 0:54

Yeah. So uh Mark and I, of course, Allie was with us and she sends her regrets, by the way. She's driving a 26-foot U-Haul today um for a little unplanned uh moving. Uh uh so she sends she sends her apologies because she really would have loved to have joined us today. But uh but anyway, uh we explored this topic with Billy, we explored this topic with McCready a little bit, uh, I don't know, maybe others. Mary Keniston, as we got into the the action side of pool, the gambling side of pool, just to better understand some of the terms, uh how it all happens, right? I mean, there's a there's a bit of a black magic to it in terms of getting matched up properly and and finding who's willing to play for stakes and who isn't and who the backers are. And that whole world is a bit mysterious to many typical league pool players like me, right? Take us early on. I mean, let's uh just let's just start to your earliest recollections of of really gambling, you know, and and and where there might have been more than just you and the player involved and trying to figure out, all right, where are we gonna play, how much we're gonna play for, what's the spot, do I have to give you balls or what. Tell me how that was all working when you were just a young guy. Yeah.

Justin Bergman 2:10

Well, it first started off probably you you knew the people, you know, because they were local, so you kind of had an idea, you know, what how you could play. And just walking in the pool halls and you know, and uh going up to them and and uh and asking them, and you kind of knew if they wanted to gamble, like, you know, the more serious players or the better players, you know, you kind of you develop a like a sixth sense you can tell, hey, that guy, you know, he'll probably want to play some cheap sets just going up and asking. And then when it when when it started to get more serious and I'd go out of town, it was usually you were with a guy from that city that could tell you, you know, hey, you go into this pool hall at this time and this guy's gonna be here, you know, uh like a they call it like a steer man, you know, he could steer you where to go. But yeah, that that's how it used to happen. Now a lot of the it happens through social media, you know, playing players you don't really like, or you know, usually that's how it happens, you know, calling them out or or whatever. Or or um a lot of times matches happen through a backer will say, Hey, uh, are you interested in playing so-and-so? You know, we got a pool room that would love to have you guys play here. And a lot of times it happens like that through other people, backers.

Mike Gonzalez 3:43

Yeah, we'll we'll get to some of your better known matchups, you know, for some big stakes and you kind of talk us through some of those stories. In the early days, you talk about a steer man. Would this guy know you and your game well enough to give you good advice on how you match up against these players he's steering you toward? Hopefully, right?

Justin Bergman 4:01

And yeah, m most of the time. Most of the time. Like I went to Atlanta one time with this guy, um, and I was like, I don't think I could drive maybe 15, 16 years old. And I mean, we he this guy was like a genius. He could get, and I'm not this way, like, you know, if I could go into a pool room and I'll ask a couple people, hey, do you want to gamble? And they tell me, no, I'm leaving. This guy, he he could, you know, get a nun to bet. You know, like literally, like, that sounds like Julian Cardona could, I bet, right? Yeah. Yep. But I was with him for a month and we gambled every single day. I think there wasn't a day we like the worst day we might have made $500 or $1,000. One uh one weekend I played this guy, we played Friday until Monday. And I think we took like, you know, an eight-hour break or something one time. But I beat him out of like it was like $20,000 or $30,000, like $25,000. We started off playing even, and at the end, I was giving him like the five out and the break. And and then I I think at the last couple sets, I was playing partners with the guy that took me into this place, and he couldn't even hold a pool cue, and I had to play partners with him versus this guy that owned the pool room, and uh we still beat him, and he was totally cool. Like his kids came in Monday morning, we actually took a break, and I signed his kids like backpack or or pool case or something, and he goes, Lunch, I gotta take my yeah, he goes, I gotta take my kids to school, I'll be right back.

Mike Gonzalez 5:47

Uh yeah, here's the keys.

Justin Bergman 5:49

Yeah. If I wasn't with that guy, you know, I probably would have who knows, would have, you know, wouldn't have made much money. Yeah. But he knew exactly where to go and he knew how to get guys to to bet.

Mike Gonzalez 6:04

Yeah, if you can find guys like that in every city, they're worth their weight in gold, I suppose, huh? Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Wilson 6:10

Well they get a percentage mic. That's their insight. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 6:12

Well sure, yeah. But you know, I mean, still it's a talent, isn't it? Not everybody can do that.

Justin Bergman 6:18

Yeah, right. Yeah, I can't.

Mike Gonzalez 6:20

No. You know, but between the salesmanship and then also just the knowledge of everybody's games and you know. Um how often did you just jump on a grenade? You didn't know the guy's uh you didn't know the guy's skill level and you you walked into trouble.

Justin Bergman 6:36

Not very often, you know, because I and I always looked younger than I did. So I got a lot of good games. I hardly ever lost, you know, really. And there was a few times like I wanted to play guys and they wouldn't let me play. You know, I like I when I was out in California, I wanted to play Moro, you know, Ishmael Paez. And the people that I was with were like, you're not playing him. Like, why would you play him? You know, because he was like the best player around, and they're like, if you beat him, nobody's gonna play. And I'm like, Well, I'm sitting here and nobody's playing now.

Mike Gonzalez 7:14

Yeah, right. Yeah.

Mark Wilson 7:16

You know. Well, I think that was always the the attraction for me with Justin is that he doesn't back down from anybody and he's not afraid, and and he's self-confident, but not cocky or egotistical, as you can hear in his voice. And so that's very endearing when you hear someone like that, because normally it's always some guy trying to feed his ego. But it's not like that with Justin. He just wants us to put it all on the line and just see who which one of us is better. And like he said, he I I can't recall him ever losing. I'm sure it must have happened along the way, but it's damn rare. And there's been a number of times I didn't think he had the best of it, even though I know his game quite well. But he knows it better, and he has a little higher gear than even I knew.

Mike Gonzalez 8:00

Yeah. And so uh Justin, was there was there a level that was on the line in terms of stakes that made a difference in terms of how your body behaves, nervousness, uh adrenaline, anything?

Justin Bergman 8:16

I mean, yeah and no, because when when you're playing for big money or or e even not, like if there's a hundred people watching, you know, you're you're gonna be a little bit nervous because you want to perform in front of those people. But yeah, I always tell people if you can play for a hundred dollars, you can play for a thousand dollars, you know. Right. If you can play for a thousand, you can play for ten thousand.

Mark Wilson 8:40

Yeah, yeah. There's only maximum pressure, and it doesn't matter whatever you feel. If you're betting a thousand and you feel super nervous, now you can bet a million. It's not gonna be you can't be more nervous.

Mike Gonzalez 8:51

Yeah, I guess you're right. I mean, I I always look at it as uh what's life-changing money? You know, if I'm betting a hundred dollars, who cares? If I'm betting a million dollars, well, I may care a little bit more, and the pucker f the pucker factor starts setting in.

Justin Bergman 9:03

Yeah, yeah. There's definitely a difference, yeah. Yeah. When when you feel real pressure, like Moscone Cup. That's a real pressure. That's probably the most pressure, you know, I've ever felt. Um, but I I felt it before, you know, play playing playing a ten thousand dollar set and you're betting your own money, you know, and that, you know, that's put that's pressure.

Mike Gonzalez 9:30

Yeah, you can, you know, your Moscone Cup experience, you can relate to the Writer Cup, same thing. I mean, they're not at least up until recently, they weren't playing for any dollars, but man alive, just putting that flag on your on your shirt make it makes a world of difference.

Justin Bergman 9:45

Yeah, and and the people, you know, like I I say this all the time, like I even like during league, you know, you'll feel pressure because you got your team behind you. You know, you might not be playing for a lot of money, but when there's a lot of people and the eyeballs are on you, you can feel it. So you don't have to be playing for a lot of money to feel pressure.

Mike Gonzalez 10:05

I I can relate to that. So so as I mentioned, I I got to back the pool, Mark knows this two and a half years ago or so. So I the first thing I did uh after I got the bug again was join a league. Never played a league before, right? So I'm I'm just playing an eight ball or nine ball in a silly league. And all of a sudden my my my eye my Apple Watch starts going off. Meaning the heart rate was up. Heart rate was like crazy high. I'm thinking, wait a minute, wait a minute. I'm you know, but I'm almost 70 years old here. It's a silly pool game. What's going on? But I can relate, Justin. You feel it, don't you?

Mark Wilson 10:42

Absolutely. Yeah. I think it's because you care. When you really care. Okay. I don't think it's see, Justin's not afraid to play. That's not going to happen. And he does feel some pressure, but it's all he wants to sometimes you don't get an opportunity to get a good shot to influence the outcome. He's not afraid to lose. He's just hopeful that he can get that chance to possibly influence the outcome of the match. Yeah. So I think that's where more where it lays with a pro, where the amateur, they're overwhelmed with the circumstances. He's lived in those circumstances.

Mike Gonzalez 11:13

Yeah, yeah. Well, before we get to we're going to talk Moscone Cup, but I want to talk about some of these challenge matches you've had. First of all, I think you'd probably agree there just aren't a lot of action players, I mean, known as action players around much anymore, are there?

Justin Bergman 11:28

Not not really. Of the Filipinos were probably, you know, more known for that.

Mike Gonzalez 11:34

Yeah, I mean, I see Oscar out there, you know, going to South America occasionally and playing big sets and things like that, right?

Justin Bergman 11:40

Yeah, Oscar, uh Tony Chohan, you know, he likes to really match up more than play tournaments. But there just aren't that many of that elk around anymore, are there?

Mike Gonzalez 11:53

No, not really. Yeah, yeah. So when did you first I mean what who who would be a name player that most of our listeners would recognize that you were able to match up, play a big challenge match against?

Justin Bergman 12:04

Um like like possibility or or it's gonna that I'm things that you've done already, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 12:11

I'm talking about.

Justin Bergman 12:14

Who's Tony? I played Tony, uh like a twenty thousand dollar one pocket match.

Mike Gonzalez 12:21

Um So what were the circumstances there? Was that your money? Was that others staked you? How does that work?

Justin Bergman 12:27

No, I I actually for that one I had uh three or four different backers, you know. Uh a few guys bet 5,000, a couple thousand here. But uh usually I just have one. I I'm not sure what he had. Gotcha. I think he just had one guy, maybe two guys.

Mike Gonzalez 12:46

So if you're playing for ten grand, Justin, winner t winner wins ten thousand dollars. What percentage of that would you typically get if you got backers?

Justin Bergman 12:56

Yeah, so that with that match, they actually gave me fifty percent, which you know is not really uncommon. Like if you're playing for more money, you know, it you might get 40%. Um I I'd say anywhere between thirty and fifty percent is standard, you know. Yeah, yeah. I usually get forty or fifty. But I I know like a there's a lot of Filipinos that play for like twenty percent, you know, or or ten percent.

Mike Gonzalez 13:28

Sometimes you gotta take what you can get, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Who else do you match up against? Do you play Oscar? You match up with Oscar in a challenge match at all?

Justin Bergman 13:38

Oh, we did. It's been a while. I've been trying to play him, but uh hasn't happened yet. I I I don't know. I'm ready to play if if he wants to. I know yeah, I mean, I'm not saying uh I got a lot of respect for Oscar. We've played five or six times.

Mike Gonzalez 13:57

Yeah.

Justin Bergman 13:57

We haven't played in like seven or eight years though. Um seems like a good guy. Yeah. No, he's uh probably the best guy in the world to play. Doesn't say a word if you beat him, he'll shake your hand, doesn't cry about roles, and that's that's rare, you know. That's rare for pros.

Mike Gonzalez 14:16

Yeah. Yeah. How about Van Boning? Did you play Van Boning?

Justin Bergman 14:20

No, we were actually gonna play like uh race to a hundred, ten ball for fifty thousand. This is probably eight years ago when nobody thought, you know, what do you you got zero chance? And I told my backer, I said, I think I can beat Shane if we're playing eight ball, magic rack, nine ball, one pocket, right? I think I can beat him. I'm not saying I'm a favorite or anything, but I know I, you know, I got a chance, a good chance, but uh I said, I can't beat him playing ten ball. And he goes, No, you're gonna beat him at his game. And he's like, he was gonna pay for an apartment for me. His name's Spike. He actually owns a couple pool rooms in a while. He owns one in Ohio now, but uh he owned them in Kansas at the time. But he says, I'm gonna put up the fifty thousand for you, and he goes, I want you to beat him uh in his own game. And he said he was gonna pay Dennis Orcolo to uh train train with me and help me with my break. I mean I Shane was the best breaker in the world, you know, 10 ball, and my break is not good at all playing 10 ball. So I and I said, Let's play him any other game. But he's like, they only wanted to play 10 ball, I think. Because he they knew they had a huge advantage.

Mike Gonzalez 15:40

Yeah, yeah. Well speaking of break, let's just before we go to the next one. What is it about your break versus Shane's just for our listeners? Is it is it something other than velocity?

Justin Bergman 15:52

Well, he probably hits them harder than me, but he also puts way more time in. You know, I did I'm like kind of lazy. I don't really practice, you know, the ten ball break and just like this weekend, eight ball break and ten ball breaks kind of similar, you know. You they're breaking from the you know same spot, you know, and it's almost the same rack except five extra balls, you know, at the bottom. But after this weekend, I I mean my break improved a hundred percent at the end because I was actually putting the time in, you know. So I just don't I don't practice it enough. But me and Shane did gamble one time, he gave me the last four uh in a lathe one time. I was I was probably twenty and he had just won like his first US Open.

Mike Gonzalez 16:43

Yeah.

Justin Bergman 16:44

But yeah. He didn't like that.

Mike Gonzalez 16:48

What's the what's the what's the biggest stakes you've played for to date?

Justin Bergman 16:53

I played a couple like ten and twenty thousand a game, bar table dime ball, with uh Carl Baum, a friend of ours, Mark and I. Um, a guy, he's from St. Louis. That's probably the biggest. I played uh Little John, uh I gave him eleven six. We played a set for like 160,000. It's probably the most, you know, on one set.

Mike Gonzalez 17:16

So explain to our listeners what you mean when you say you gave him eleven six.

Justin Bergman 17:21

Um, so playing one pocket, I had to go to eleven balls, he goes to six balls. Gotcha.

Mike Gonzalez 17:27

Gotcha.

Justin Bergman 17:28

I think it was like a race to twenty-one, race to twenty-four, maybe.

Mike Gonzalez 17:32

Okay, all right. Who are some other big names that our listeners would recognize that you uh have played some stake matches against?

Justin Bergman 17:40

I played Efron Reyes, a challenge match. Mark commented it. I mean, they he Efran was past his prime, obviously. Like this was 2020, so this was six years ago. I played Bustamani a couple challenge matches, Roberto Gomez, Dennis Orcolo. Jason Shaw. Jason Shaw. Yeah, that wasn't a gambling match.

Mike Gonzalez 18:05

Um showed you one time or opted not to play after you made a long drive out of east, didn't you? Yeah. Yeah. What was that all about?

Justin Bergman 18:14

So the speaking of backers getting involved, this is probably eight, nine years ago. A backer of mine just out of the blue goes, hey, you want to play Jason Shaw? Uh uh a match for 20,000. He's gonna come to St. Louis. I'm like, yeah, sure. So it's in like two days, just randomly out of the blue, you know, happens. So I'm like, sweet. So uh we're gonna play the night before it gets called off. I guess one of his backers backed out. Well, a guy from Boston that owned a pool room last minute decides, hey, I want I I'm already on my way to watch. He goes, just to see the match go on, I'm gonna put the 20,000 up for Jason. So now it's on again. He shows up, I beat him, like it was pr I beat him like 172 or 178.

Mike Gonzalez 19:12

And he like most people wasn't 69.

Justin Bergman 19:16

Yeah. It was a race to 80. Yeah, it was a race to 80. It was like 22 games or 21 games, but and most people thought he was a favorite, right? So after the match, you know, we he we were alright. You know, I didn't think there was he kind of acted like a baby, but you know, I probably would have too if I just got beat like 22 games. So he got on Facebook and said that I cheated and I'm taking smoke breaks and and all this stuff, right? And then he's like, he he won't give me a rematch. And a rematch was never talked about, right? So a year or two goes by and a guy, Ray Hansen, who's like a big one of the biggest pool streamers, you know, set it up. We're gonna play right after Derby in South Carolina, uh race to 80 or race to 100, 10 ball, you know, for 20 or 30,000, whatever it was. And it I spoke to Jason at Derby. It was all good. You know, it was gonna be a a tighter diamond table. I can't remember if it was four inches or four and a quarter, but that was what was agreed agreed on. We drive I drive down there, I get there two or three days early, you know, hitting balls, talking to the owner. He's like, Man, I'm people are coming from California, Canada, Florida. We had a guy coming from England, Europe, to watch. I had about 20 people coming from St. Louis. It was the day before the match, I get to the pool hall. He goes, Man, we got a problem. I just talked to Jason. He says, He's not coming. I was like, he's gonna come. He's just saying that. He's like, no, he's saying that we're all in on it together, that we fit we change the table. And he said, he's not playing on this tight table. And he goes, Will you do me a favor? I was like, what? He goes, Will you play him on a regular four and a half inch pocket table? Because that's the only way he's coming. He's saying that he didn't agree to this table. And I was like, Man, I no. I was like, I you know, and then about 20 minutes later they talked me into it. So I said, Okay, I I'll agree. I'll play him on any table in here. The owner paid a guy fifteen hundred dollars to come change the tabletop out. And then uh he still didn't show up. And then and then it it was my fault, you know. He said, I I changed the game and and all this, and you know, it's totally not true. Alex Pegulan and Bustamani were there. Yeah, like they seen it.

Mike Gonzalez 21:56

So So will that ever happen again, you think, or not with him? I probably not. Yeah. Yeah. Uh so speaking of equipment, did you really care about walking into some guy's room playing him on his table?

Justin Bergman 22:12

You mean Shaw or anybody. Just anybody. Anybody. Definitely definitely. Because it it it is a huge thing, you know, knowing the table, knowing the rails, knowing you know, table down south always plays different than a table in the Midwest or West Coast. And I mean that that yeah, that's it's a huge factor.

Mike Gonzalez 22:32

Okay. So it has to that's a couple of things.

Justin Bergman 22:34

Yeah, you didn't see it. When I was younger, no, no. But now I'm a little bit wiser, you know. Okay. I want to try to play on something that benefits me more.

Mike Gonzalez 22:43

Yeah, yeah. So it's a bit of a negotiation at times then to make sure that you try to make it as fair for both as you can. It's not favoring one player versus another. Yeah. Yeah.

Mark Wilson 22:53

But we're up in quality of competition now, Mike, too. Because if if it's just a random guy, he doesn't care what three and three-quarter inch, it's fine. But if you're gonna play someone like Shaw, a pure killer, yeah, you gotta have a feel for what you're doing there.

Mike Gonzalez 23:08

Yeah, yeah. Well, let's let's if we can, let's move on to 2014. Um uh you got a you got a guy named Mark Wilson selected to captain the Moscone Cup team for the United States of America. And uh you get the call. How'd that all happen, guys?

Justin Bergman 23:29

The best guy that could have had the job got the job, and that was Mark, and he called me and said, Hey, I want you to be a part of this team, but he's like, You're gonna have to earn it probably more than anybody else, because I he said, I'm not gonna pick you just because I know you. You know. But yeah, that was probably the my favorite year of Moscone Cup was that first year.

Mike Gonzalez 23:52

Probably pressure on both of you guys, right? Because you had the local factor work and everybody's thinking, ah yeah, hell, it's you know, Mark's gonna pick him. He's his you know, he's his favorite son there in St. Louis, and so Justin's feeling pressure to perform and prove him wrong. You're feeling pressure for Justin to prove him wrong.

Mark Wilson 24:12

Yeah, absolutely true. It was it was one of those things where I know he belongs, but people are gonna interpret it differently, like maybe I'd just be favorite uh favoritism, but I wouldn't do that to the sport, and that's why I told Justin up front, you you're gonna have to perform and and show up. I can't cover for you because I'm kind of out here exposed already in terms of people are already suspecting that it I would just give it to him. But he knows me, he knows I wouldn't just give it to him. So and uh but I know he's gonna be cool under pressure. He's gonna feel the heat, no doubt about it, because it's an atmosphere you've never played in. But at the bottom line, you you get paid to play. I mean, the worst place, the worst thing you're gonna get is five or ten thousand dollars if you lose. And it's that chance for a career-defining moment, and if you win, it's better. Well, a lot of the tournaments don't even pay that much. So pressure, it's a big crowd, it's unfamiliar, but really it's more if you psychological, you know, if you because you're getting paid no matter what. It's just how much. And so we got a chance. It's it's like a free bullet there, you know. So, but that being said, I was concerned because he was quite young. How old were you in 2014? Were you probably 25 or something, maybe?

Mike Gonzalez 25:27

27. Wait a second, 27, yeah.

Mark Wilson 25:30

Okay. So uh, you know, if you never did it before, it it is kind of daunting. And we were at the Tower Circus in Blackpool, and that that is like built in the 1800s. It's kind of it's not the Eiffel Tower, but it's something similar to that with a big circus underneath. And when you come out, you're down under there in these animal cages are right next to you that still have the scent of lions and elephants and zebras and stuff, right? Right? Yeah, and it's pitch black, and when when they the it's a real steep uh setting. It's not like a normal uh standard theater, and there's a queen's box up there, and it's super ornate and uh small, and but the people it kind of comes straight up. It's like you're a gladiator and you're going out into the arena to possibly die, and the lights are so bright when you come out of that dark tunnel and then the crowd is on top of you. Unbelievable. You know, I mean so loud. Oh, and and it people could wet their pants. I mean, it's it's like that. You just want to you just hope to survive the way this is. Uh am I joking at all? No.

Justin Bergman 26:36

And that's a mean crowd.

Mark Wilson 26:37

They say the meanest stuff, like it is Remember this one, Schmidt, Schmidt, you play it like Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The whole crowd is chanting and they got masks and cheers, and then I'll I'll never forget it. Justin was playing, and there's it's a hard competition. And maybe let's say he missed the ball while the whole crowd is chanting, Justin, Justin, give it away. Justin, Justin, give it away. And that's what we all thought. But what they're actually saying is, Justin, Justin, give us a wave. And and so, but but you don't hear that, and then all he has to do is just wave to the crowd, and then they go on to, you know, uh whoever it might. Appleton, appleton, give us a wave. You know, it's just but we didn't know it at first, and then so it's daunting, threatening, and there's heavy drinking involved in this too. Oh yeah.

Justin Bergman 27:32

One guy goes, uh, this was in 2017, I believe, in London. So during bathroom breaks, you you gotta wait, right? So you gotta queue up before you can go in there. So I'm outside and I'm stuck with all the rowdy UK guys. And I got, you know, they know I'm the player, I got my jersey on, and they're like just circling around me, laughing, making fun of us, and these two guys behind me, this one guy goes, Man, this is a this is a show. This is a joke, mate. And he and then the one guy goes, the one guy goes, Well, yeah, what happened? He said, uh, America used to be a great country. He goes, First Donald Trump, now this. We want our money back. I just wanted to punch that guy so bad.

Mike Gonzalez 28:19

So you you never felt that kind of pressure?

Justin Bergman 28:22

No, absolutely not. Thousands of people screaming at you. Like it it's intimidating for sure. But especially your first time, but you get used to it for sure. That's why rookies they usually never do good, you know, and uh take a while to settle in.

Mike Gonzalez 28:39

I mean it takes you a set or a game, or I mean how many how long?

Justin Bergman 28:43

A couple games. A couple games. Yeah, and then the table is so fast, brand new cloth, brand new balls, and TV lights. You can never you never get to practice in the in them conditions, right? Right. So So you're gonna make mistakes and then the crowds on you, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 29:04

So what would what would you have been playing on in 2014? What would you have been playing on? That was a diamond. Diamond. And how tight would they have made them?

Justin Bergman 29:12

The standard or now they're four inches. I think they're f they might have been four and a half or maybe four and a quarter.

Mark Wilson 29:19

Yeah. You never get to hit a practice ball on the TV table. You have your practice room table, okay, which is about fifty yards away from the setting, but the crowd is stomping, okay, out there so bad that the curtains are shaking in the practice room and the walls are shaking and the floor is shaking, and you're thinking, you gotta be kidding me. What a it's like it's crazy time when you go in there, but the practice table gets used so much that when you get up to lag, the thing is three times faster out in the arena, but they don't even let you their first shot is the lag on that day. Yeah.

Justin Bergman 29:53

Yeah. And that the first year to 2014, that was by far the loudest. It was in Blackpool, the northern part of England. They they told us don't leave, you know, don't leave your hotel at night. It's uh it's a rough city. So that was the the crowd there.

Allison Fisher 30:12

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