Kelly Fisher - Part 1 (From Pub Tables to World Titles)

Mike Gonzalez 0:13

Welcome to another edition of Legends of the Q and Mark Wilson. After reviewing the stellar record of our guest today, I'm beginning to question our Kingfisher theory.

Mark Wilson 0:28

Well, I was able to witness many of her career highlights in pool, and so uh I'm blessed and honored once again to have our special guest, and Alison, why don't you please introduce her?

Allison Fisher 0:38

It's my great pleasure to introduce someone I consider a friend, and I've even called her my younger sister. She's accomplished pretty much everything in Q Sports in snooker and pool, and is still very much feared by her competitors on the table. She's a multi-world champion, a BCA Hall of Famer, and lastly has been honoured as an MBE in Great Britain. Welcome, Kelly Fisher. Welcome to the show.

Kelly Fisher 1:05

Hi, everybody. Thank you very much for having me on the show. I'm really looking forward to this.

Mike Gonzalez 1:10

This should be fun. So seriously, ladies. I know you you you always joke about this sibling rivalry in Big Sisters, young sister. Was there much rivalry between you two, or has it always been very friendly?

Kelly Fisher 1:27

Well, there's always been a lot of rivalry between us for sure. But on the table is one thing. Off the table, yeah, of course, like Alison said, we've been great friends for many, many years.

Allison Fisher 1:41

We've known each other a very, very long time. I think. Did I meet you when you were about 13, 12 or 13 years old?

Kelly Fisher 1:46

12 or 13, yeah. Yeah, 35 years, Ollie.

Allison Fisher 1:50

Good lord, that's a long time ago. And was that at Caroline's and obviously in some of the tournaments in England?

Kelly Fisher 1:56

Yeah, I played my.

Allison Fisher 1:58

We didn't cross paths too much, did we, as far as competing?

Kelly Fisher 2:02

No, I think. Well, I I remember my first world championships that my first ever tournament was the world championships that I played in. And if I won two matches, I would have played you, and I'd never met you before, and that was my goal. You were the current champion and world number one. And I won my first match, and then I lost my second match too. So I never did get to play you. But I met you that day and took a picture with my long curly hair.

Allison Fisher 2:30

Uh we need to get that picture for everyone to see, by the way.

Kelly Fisher 2:34

No, no, no chance. And uh yeah, and then from then on, we didn't meet often, but um here and there before you went to America. That's right. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 2:43

So I've got to ask you to, and Ali, you'll remember this. I saw a Facebook post you put up, and it was a short video of the two of you. You're sitting at a like a round eight top in a banquet hall, and Kelly's going on and on and on. You look up at the camera like, I remember. What here we go again.

Allison Fisher 3:06

I'll tell you where we were exactly. What was that all about? We're at Wisconsin and we have a banquet at the end of the year. It's our door championship. So everyone gets together, and I'm sitting at the table and I'm looking over at Brittany on another table, and I'm like, Kelly's Kelly's famous for talking. She's a great talker. Talks non-stop, right? And I'm just pulling the faces and nodding occasionally, and that's what you're is captured on camera. I'm just going, yeah, yeah. And she's on going on, you know, doesn't even notice the attention of me. And uh anyway, it was just a funny video to post.

Kelly Fisher 3:43

Me talking, I don't know.

Allison Fisher 3:44

I think Alison would be talking about the state of the game, I think.

Kelly Fisher 3:48

Probably. Probably trying to fix a world of Paul, you know, exactly.

Mike Gonzalez 3:53

Exactly right. Now now that now that you are on the board of the WPA board of directors, what you are going to do to change the game for the better, probably, right?

Allison Fisher 4:01

Oh, of course, that was what we were talking about, which we'll come to a bit later on.

Mike Gonzalez 4:05

Yeah, yeah. Well, as you may know, Kelly, if you've listened to any of these early interviews we've done, we're telling the life stories of all the greats of Pool. And we always want to go back to the very beginning. We know you were born in South Elmsul, England. Uh so why don't you take us through your earliest recollections of life as a child there?

Kelly Fisher 4:26

Wow, okay. Well, I was born in, like you said, South Emsell. And what when my parents had me, they actually had a pub. They were landlord and landlady of a of a working men's pub. And funnily enough, it had a snooker table in it, but we'll come to that later. So I basically had a wonderful childhood, very, very fortunate, very lucky. The best parents in the world. My mum, uh, she was yeah, she was absolutely an angel, we we always called her. She was always happy and very loving, and my dad was a professional boxer when he was young, and then a professional wrestler after that. So, again, coming up to later when I'm about to play snooker, he gave me a lot of mental strength and you know, things to focus on and always challenge myself, etc. And yet my mum was the opposite. My mum was one of 16 children, 10 brothers she had, and five sisters, and she was a twin right in the very middle of the 16, which is crazy. So I remember visiting the my mum was Irish in Northern Ireland, and I remember visiting often, and my granny couldn't, we had that many, she had that many grandchildren. I think there was 50 something in total. I know. Tell me about that. Catholic, of course. Yeah, Catholic, of course. And uh, we used to go there every Easter and do the they all had farms and kind of farmland and and do the you know the egg on the spoon and all that kind of thing. But you go to a house and she didn't know, she couldn't remember your name, so because there's that many, so she'd say in her Irish accent, and who are you from? So you'd answer, um, you know, I'm Stella's daughter, and then she's oh hi Kelly, how are you doing? And that's how she how she knew, but based on the parent that you told her. That's it. And again, and at Easter, she couldn't afford to buy everybody an Easter egg, so we got a Cabrice Cream egg, you know, because all the so many of us. But no, very lucky childhood. I my parents were busy working many hours, and uh, my dad's sister, my auntie Ellen, she took care of me a lot of the time when they were working, and she was wonderful too. I did tap dancing. I don't do you know that Ali, by the way.

Allison Fisher 6:55

I think you've probably mentioned it. And drama, I know you've mentioned drama before.

Kelly Fisher 6:59

Oh, the drama's coming later, but the tap dancing, the tap dancing. I've got pictures where I went, we did a show, and my dad must have bought or he had this big camcorder that he had to put on his shoulder back then, and he recorded it. And I've got it somewhere on VHS.

Allison Fisher 7:18

We've got to get there.

Kelly Fisher 7:19

Yeah, well, I know, and I've got it somewhere, I'm sure I have. And I did Thank Evans for Little Girls with a dress and everything, and then dance in the rain, all this. And I was actually, I don't know, I thought I was alright here, but it weren't for me, you know, really.

Allison Fisher 7:35

Well, my mum tried to take me to tap classes classes once, and I said, and I saw the tutos, and I said, I will if you will. And she didn't, so we left.

Kelly Fisher 7:46

Well, I I lasted a couple of years at this, and I enjoyed it. I remember enjoying it, but it just weren't for me. I was doing football, soccer, and even doing all the different sports, like you know, more boyish if you like, or tomboyish. And then when I was seven, so that was from about the age of five, funnily enough, I remember it. And then when I was seven, I followed my dad a little bit more because he used to he taught me boxing from a very young age, and I went and did kung fu. So that was more up my street, to be fair, and yeah, I continued doing kung fu for about nine years and all the way got all the way to my black belt, my black sash, fought in competition, and uh, you know, won some competitions, fighting and things like that. But I kept I got injured. So at the age of 12, I started playing snooker and uh I was training for my black belt at this at the time when I started taking it more seriously, and I injured my elbow, I injured a few different things. So my dad said, Look, I think you know, you need to kind of maybe I know you're not gonna quit till you get your black belt, but once you get that, you might need to make a decision. You know, I don't think they match very well. So I chose snooker, and that's a brief rundown.

Allison Fisher 9:05

That's interesting. Your dad made a very good decision there, didn't he, in protecting you and encouraging you to do something else. So, how did you get into snooker? I know you mentioned snooker in your pub. What about getting to a full-size table? Maybe that first time you went into a snooker club. How did that feel and what happened?

Kelly Fisher 9:22

Well, the funny thing is, is even rewinding, and we've I was very fortunate to have uh a kid's room, a playroom. And even from a very young age, I had a small snooker table and a bigger one and a bigger one, till eventually my dad got me a uh a pool table, a proper English pool table in my playroom. So I used to knock the balls around on that. But I used to sneak in the pub at closing between 4 and 7 pm, get a crate, stand on the crate and hit balls. I don't really have much memory of it, but I've been told from a very young age. And my parents got a warning for because it's a working men's club and there's a committee and everything, and they got taken upstairs a few times with a warning for me coming in, sneaking, you know, sneaking in. And I mean my parents knew, but yeah, so I had to stop. And then from there, I was we moved pubs, they bought a pub themselves that had an English pool table in it. I played a lot. I played the guys for a pound, and I ended up saving up £500 in a big glass jar. Yeah. And then one day my dad said, Do you fancy I used to watch it on TV and do you fancy playing a game of snooker? Because I've been playing English pool, really. I said, Yeah, sure. So he took me to a snooker club, uh, Wakefield Snooker Club, and I just went on the table, he went to get a drink at the bar, and he saw a sign on there saying, What did it say now? It said local coach, that was it, local coach, a poster, sorry. And uh yeah, he asked behind the bar, he said, uh, where's you know, how can I get in touch with a local coach? It's best to call him. And he said, funnily enough, he's in right now. So unbeknown to me, I'm hitting balls, waiting on my Coke, Coca-Cola, and Lionel, Lionel Payne came round and to take a look, met my dad, and he said, I'll take a look for you. And he looked over, he said, I think she's a bit short, I think she's a bit small, maybe bring her back in a year. So my dad said, Okay, no problem. And then he said, I'll watch a little bit though, and I didn't have a clue. About five minutes later, he's like, No, forget that, we'll start tomorrow.

Allison Fisher 11:31

Wow, you must have shown that talent.

Kelly Fisher 11:35

And you're with Lionel to this day. Just about to say that, and 35 years later, I spoke to him today, and he's still my coach today. Isn't that something?

Mike Gonzalez 11:45

So, Kelly, just sort of help us understand the progression at your at your folks' pub, because you said, I think you said you started playing on an English pool table. So, for our American listeners for sure, they need to understand what the difference is between an English pool table and an American pool table, let's say.

Kelly Fisher 12:04

Well, it's a bit like a bar box. It's on the bed of the table, it's almost six foot by three, I believe. And basically, what it is, it's eight ball with instead of spots and stripes, it's reds and yellows. Nowadays the cue ball is smaller than the rest of the balls, so that that's the way it comes through the mechanism. But the pockets are rounded like a snooker table. The ball set is even smaller than a snooker size ball. So it is very different, but you know, it's still a game of pool on a pool table. It's just the differences between a bar box and and the table itself is the rounded pockets, uh, smaller pockets and smaller balls. And then the game essentially is eight ball, just with spots instead of spots and stripes, reds and yellows.

Mike Gonzalez 12:56

Yeah, and and those down rail shots, much like Snooker, are quite difficult, aren't they?

Kelly Fisher 13:02

Yes, they are, yes, they are. So it's uh it's definitely uh more of a tactical game than bar box, if you like. But yeah, it's a it's a great game and and it's taking off now in the UK as well. So it's it's doing well.

Allison Fisher 13:15

Does it still have the napped cloth? Is it still a nap cloth like quite thick?

Kelly Fisher 13:19

Predominantly, but not always nowadays. It's Simon's have got the you know, they've got the the speed cloth as well. Uh they call it speed cloth, yeah. So they've got the American cloth as well, events, quite a lot of events now with that too. But they do have, again, about 50-50. I would say it is now, Ali. But uh yeah, napcloth too on on used to be all nap cloth, green nap cloth, but now they've got different colours and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 13:47

And you know, for those that that uh think they're pretty good players on a you know what the the tables they're used to in the States, let's say it takes a while, a little bit of an adjustment to you know, different weight of the balls, different circumference of the balls. It's an adjustment, isn't it?

Kelly Fisher 14:04

Absolutely, no, of course. I mean, uh, you know, this is especially this is the only discipline, English pool is the only discipline currently, I believe, uh that I know of where the cue ball is a different size, different weight, totally different reaction than any other that I know because we've been smaller, the follow is much more difficult to do, and the the deflection is totally different because when you're you're playing a follow on an angle, it comes off totally different, and the draw is a lot easier, so it's definitely very different, even the reaction of the balls compared to adjusting from snooker even to American pool, because they have the same size cue ball as the balls that you're playing with, so it's different. Very different.

Mike Gonzalez 14:53

So, did your parents at some point uh buy a another pub that had a different type table in it?

Kelly Fisher 15:00

No, basically, I literally went from the playroom going bigger and bigger to eventually having an English pool table to then them buying their own pub, which had an English pool table in it. And that's when at the age of 12 I started playing snooker, and then I think we left that with the sold that pub when I was around 13, I believe, 14. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 15:24

I would think as a kid growing up, one of your experiences was playing in some of these leagues, these pub leagues, if you will, or playing in these men's clubs. What was that all about? How'd that go?

Kelly Fisher 15:36

Well, it didn't go too good, to be honest with you. Everybody was open for female, females to play on their league team, if you like, but we did face some challenges, that's for sure. Not only was I a female, the only female on my team, but I was also still a child. So going to these different working men's clubs or even pubs, the age was one problem sometimes that I could only go in to play my match. But additionally, I faced as I got older the problem of discrimination, really being female that never allowed a female to either go into the snooker room, let alone play on the snooker table. So I had a couple of instances where I weren't actually even allowed to watch my teammates sat in the car with a can of coke and a packet of crisps while with me and my dad, while the team all played, and when it was my turn to play, I was allowed to go in and play my match and my game and then leave again, which is crazy to think nowadays, you know. But it got to a point where I remember there was a county match and I was playing, I got invited, but it was being held at this particular working men's club that had never allowed a female in the snooker room nor on the table, but that had a meeting to allow it. So I was the only one out of eight players invited, 16 or 8, I don't remember. And I drew the toughest player, the the current previous champion of that tournament, and I beat him 3-1, and I had two century breaks, and I had the I held the highest break for that tournament, which was under 16. I remember that. So I'm chuffed to bits, I'm happy as Larry, and off I go, and everybody's treating me very nicely in there. They even allowed the uh spectators and the members, if you like, their wives in there, which was a first of ever. Well, I was due because there were other matches that were going on once a week. They had their meetings on a Tuesday. Uh I'm sorry, on a Thursday. And we played on the Tuesday. So the Thursday prior to my next match, they had another meeting and they decided that they're not going to allow it again. Women are not allowed again from now on. So they took me out of the tournament. They just yeah, they just cancelled it for me and uh took my name out of the tournament and told me that I couldn't play, I couldn't carry on, and and that was it. Can you imagine that nowadays?

Allison Fisher 18:20

That's just crazy. It's absolutely diabolical.

Kelly Fisher 18:24

Yeah, and that's a true story, that's exactly what happened. And I was through to the next round and never got to play the rest of the tournament because they voted against it. Yeah. And I held the icebreak.

Mike Gonzalez 18:35

Yeah, yeah. And Allie, you I mean, you saw similar stuff in terms of the access for for for women. It's unbelievable.

Allison Fisher 18:41

Unbelievable. Such a male-dominated game, but chauvinist, very chauvinistic for the women.

Kelly Fisher 18:48

Yeah, we did have that. We did have that. And there's a lot of stories, even went on longer than you could imagine to the girls today who are playing snooker still. I'm not saying it's necessarily happening like that now, but weren't that long ago that I had the last couple of, you know, the last time I heard a story or two about this kind of thing. So it wasn't too long ago. I'm assuming and I'm hoping that it's a lot better now.

Allison Fisher 19:13

So it was actually refreshing, I think, for both of us, certainly for me, but I'm sure Kelly too coming to America because it's completely different. I mean, you get a little bit of it here and there, but nothing like England.

Kelly Fisher 19:24

No, no comparison. I never felt anything like that in America.

Mike Gonzalez 19:29

Okay, so Lionel Payne comes into your life.

Kelly Fisher 19:32

Uh-huh.

Mike Gonzalez 19:33

What happened?

Kelly Fisher 19:36

Well, from that day, in him saying, you know, no, we'll start today or we'll start tomorrow. Basically, I was very fortunate, very, very lucky in many, many ways. My parents uh could afford at that time to send, you know, take me, and I went three times a week, every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday, to have a lesson with Lionel. And it progressed, don't get me wrong, it never started like that, but it progressed to three times a week. Then Saturday there was a local tournament, The King of the Hill, that I played in every week, every Saturday. I'd arrive at 10am and my dad had come with me and sit there for 12 hours and go back again. And then, you know, I mean, when I think back, the dedication that my dad gave was unbelievable. I mean, and my mum, she was very supportive, but always trying to make sure my school. So, you know, I kept up with school. But one thing I didn't mention was at one point I was doing everything. I was actually going to school in the obviously in the daytime, getting up in the morning, going to school, coming back, eating my dinner, then going to Kung Fu, coming back, showering, and then my dad would drive me to the snooker club, and then I'd get in at 11, 10 pm at night, whatever, because I had a lesson. I'd do my homework, go to sleep, and the next day, same again. So, yeah, at one point it was yeah, pretty hectic. What's going on?

Allison Fisher 21:04

Your life hasn't changed much since, I don't think.

Kelly Fisher 21:06

Well, maybe that's why I am like I am, Ali. Maybe no wonder when I think about it. Lots of things going on.

Allison Fisher 21:12

Yeah, when I think about it.

Kelly Fisher 21:14

No wonder I like being busy. You do, you're a busy lady.

Mark Wilson 21:17

Kelly, talk a little bit about uh what Lionel had you do uh as you evolved, like from the first time you met him. How did he talk about your mechanics, stance, or how did that start?

Kelly Fisher 21:28

Well, funnily enough, very much mechanics because my stroke, even though now I've got a quick stroke, when I first began, I was like Alex Higgins on steroids. I basically I basically had the biggest snatch, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had the biggest snatch and I jumped up with it every shot than you can imagine. So I mean, even now I've still got a snatch. But but nothing like that. I stay down, I keep the chin on the cue. But yeah, I mean, and he had to it took a long time. But when you're a kid, you're like a sponge, aren't you? I mean, good grief. If only I could go back to then now. But yeah, I mean, yeah, he had some work, but I must say I had natural ability apparently. And I have a very fast player. So literally Alex Higgins on steroids, really. And I just used to one-stroke every ball, and he had to try and slow me down a little bit. But just teaching me, obviously, the very basics. I remember, you know, doing the lineup, and one thing he's said, and he still says to this day, but he said, no matter what he told me to do, he couldn't believe how fast I picked it up. You know, it said, right, screw. This is how we call it in England, screw back, not draw back. This is how he screwed back. And you know, you aim me, I did it, push through the cube. All right, by try number two, three, I could do it. I don't know. So I'm very quick at learning. And every time he tried to show me how to screw back, he'd chip the ball, he'd jump the ball. And as I got older and better and better, funnily enough, now I teach, and every time I go to show somebody how to draw back, I chip the ball. But uh yeah, it's uh it's one of those things. But no, I you know, I was a quick learner apparently, and then we progressed.

Mark Wilson 23:21

So mentally, mentally you you must have really believed in him too, right? And and you fostered that relationship that where you have trust between your coach and yourself.

Kelly Fisher 23:32

Absolutely, yeah. And my dad were always there at the beginning, and my dad and Lionel got on so well, to the point, like I mean, now he's like my brother, but to the point that he would like family quite quickly, really, and he stopped charging me for lessons that are young very soon into it because he just had this passion and belief that I could do really well. But it was very quickly that I played in tournaments, very I mean, probably too soon, really. But he thought I were ready, and I and I think I were, you know, I I got thrown in at the deep end, but like I mentioned earlier, my first major event was the Women's World Championships, sponsored by Trust House 40. Do you remember that, Alex?

Allison Fisher 24:14

I do, I I do indeed, yeah.

Kelly Fisher 24:16

You won it that year, and I forget the year now, but you can't. I mean, it must have been 91 or 90. And yeah, it was I was down somewhere in Dorking or somewhere south of England, and me, my mum and dad, and Lionel all went down, plus a few of my parents' friends. And yeah, there's a funny story to that one, by the way. Go on, yeah. There is, there is a funny story. So imagine for first tournament ever. I played in a couple of local tournaments and threw up on my first very tournament right before my match. But after that, I was good in the local tournaments, but then this one was the first proper one. So I'm playing, you'll remember Ali, Janet Hanlon. Janet Hanlon. Janet Hanlon, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Playing her. And this lady is wearing all leather from yeah, all leather, high heels, leather trousers, leather vest, waistcoat, as we call it, shirt, and she's chewing gum. And I'm like, well, I mean, I thought that was no, I didn't know any different, right? So I'm like, so I'm playing her, and a few things happened during that match. I had needed the spider, the high bridge, if you like, but I needed it right over the entire pack because I'd gone to, I don't know, I ended up there and I needed to hit the black.

Allison Fisher 25:39

Right.

Kelly Fisher 25:40

Well, of course, I dropped it in there, didn't I? Split all the reds everywhere. So foul seven points, reds are everywhere. That was one thing.

Allison Fisher 25:47

Just as you wanted them.

Kelly Fisher 25:49

Yeah, and I now remember my goal is to play Ali. I've got to win two matches, right? So it goes one-one, and it was a black ball game. There were three black bowl games in this match. One, one, two, two. I go to the toilet and I drop my chalk down the toilet. I'm a 12-year-old girl, honestly. With that piece of chalk that's yours. It was on a magnet, and I pull my you know, trousers down and then it comes off the magnet and goes straight down the toilet. Well, I we never had spares in them days. We never had multiple pieces of chalk in them days. So well, and I come out the toilet crying my eyes out, cuddling my mum, not knowing what to do without my chalk. I managed, obviously, they got me a piece of chalk. I won three, two on the black somehow, somewhere. Yeah, I won three, two on the black after dropping the chalk down the toilet and crying my eyes out. And then and like I said, I lost the next match to play Ali, but yeah, that's the story of my first ever major event mark.

Allison Fisher 26:54

Then you went and flushed that piece of chalk down the toilet.

Kelly Fisher 26:56

I don't know what I think I fished it out if I'm honest.

Mike Gonzalez 26:59

I was waiting to hear whether the chalk was retrievable or not. Yeah.

Allison Fisher 27:03

Well, I think I fished it out.

Mike Gonzalez 27:06

Well, you're 12, you know, and it's expensive stuff.

Kelly Fisher 27:09

It was my automatic reaction. I fished it out, I think. But I I hope I hope my mum made me put it in the trash. I hope so. Can't remember.

Mike Gonzalez 27:18

EBay. I've I've got a oh Lord. So some of our listeners may wonder where does she get her competitive spirit? And I'm thinking, you know, with a mom that's one of 16, she had to be pretty competitive just to survive in that environment.

Kelly Fisher 27:36

Well, I'll have to say she wasn't at all. Really? There wasn't a competitive bone in her body. Um, she'd rather let you in, just have you know, peace, no problem. Yeah, no. Definitely not from, definitely not from my mum. No. My dad.

Allison Fisher 27:51

Your dad was a massive mentor for you, wasn't he? With all the advice from boxing and then just guiding your snooker career, putting you in touch with a coach was a really big thing and a smart thing to do. So he obviously saw what your potential was.

Kelly Fisher 28:06

Yeah, and I mean I was uh you've got to remember at this age of 12, I'm throwing javelin for the score, playing tennis a little bit, but I'm doing what was it now called the the disc, you know? Discus? Discover, there we go. Yeah, I'm throwing that for the score. I'm playing football, soccer. That's my passion at that moment. And I'm playing on the fiver side, the full team with all the boys for the score. Then on top of that, I'm doing kung fu working my way up to a black belt. So everything you can see, it's very sporty, and my dad loved it, and my mum just wanted to put me in dresses and frilly frilly bows and things, you know. And that just I the only thing I ever cried about was wanting to put my soccer kit on, and she was wanting to put me in a dress. But my dad, it was definitely all all my dad when it comes to that side of it. Yeah, all the way now.

Allison Fisher 29:04

You do have a si a sibling, right?

Kelly Fisher 29:07

Yes, my dad would I do. I have a brother, Steve, and he's wonderful too. My dad was married, previously married, and they had my brother and then divorced, and then he met my mum years later, and here I am. But my brother lives in California, and he has done well, he's lived in America from me being very young. He went to the Marines and got his Green Beret, Red Beret, whichever one it is, and he'd left the even the village and the area when I was about two, I think, to go off to the Marines. And so I only saw him here and there, but as we've got older, we're much, much closer. And now, you know, it's we've got a great relationship. Yeah, that's wonderful.

Allison Fisher 29:51

So he wasn't any influence on you growing up, that's the point. It's like he left at two years old, so it was you and your dad.

Kelly Fisher 29:57

It was me and my dad, and Lionel. And Lionel, really, yeah. And about very competitive just in general from a young age. I mean, all them sports there, you know. But there was one, you know, one saying, one of two sayings that stick out that my dad used to say to me, and that was you know, you win your fights in the gym. So no matter what you're doing, whether it's football, soccer, throwing the javelin, whatever it is, you've got to train, you know, you've got to practice. Kung Fu, you've got to you've got to train for it. And snooker, you've got to practice that that goes for for any sport. And then the the other one is uh which sticks with me, although or has stuck with me all my career, is nobody remembers second best. So everybody and yeah, and yeah, yeah. And everybody loves everybody loves a winner. We know that one, but nobody remembers second best, Kelly. You know, and and that's all I said. He never explained it, it never, it never went on any further than that.

Allison Fisher 31:01

Just let you think about it.

Kelly Fisher 31:03

Yeah, let me think about it, and it stuck with me just that just that sentence.

Allison Fisher 31:06

While you were eating your cream egg.

Kelly Fisher 31:08

Now I yeah, now I'm hoping people remember third and fourth and fifth and sixth best. But but it's helped me, it's helped me up to now.

Allison Fisher 31:18

Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 31:18

Yeah, you've got to think like a champion. You know, I I think about, and Kelly, you may not know this, but I've been doing a golf podcast doing the same thing with with great golfers, right? And we're talking to people that have won major championships and have been in the Hall of Fame. And uh I'll bring up like playing in the Masters, and maybe they won the Masters once, but they might have had three or four other top ten, some pretty good finishes. They could care less. They don't want to talk about finished in third.

Kelly Fisher 31:47

No, that's right. None of us remember any of that. Yeah, you know. Yeah, that's right. That's exactly right.

Allison Fisher 31:54

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