Mark Wilson - Part 5 (Mosconi Captain, University Coach and Pool Ambassador)

So that was two Mosconi Cups, and then later I got to be the captain, which that was a weird thing.
I used to, once in a while, I'd say, look, I would love to just broadcast a match of the Mosconi Cup, because I did some for Accustats and a couple of the networks here. And no, no, can't do it. We got our own commentator team.
So I didn't ask anymore. I just, just one time I thought, X player, come back, and I would just love to be affiliated with it, because it's like the proudest thing for me and pool. And so, never, no, well, then, what was that?
I guess it would be just the beginning of 2014. They call me and they go, listen, we're thinking about making you the next captain for the Moscone Cup. But I think it's a prank.
You won't even let me talk about it. How on the hell am I going to coach it? You know, and so then that came about.
And that was that was quite a learning thing there, too, in that you think you're going to be a pool coach, but you're not. You're everything but that. And so I was disillusioned because I thought that, you know, my task was to win.
We've been losing quite a bit and you got to win, but you really become a mom and a dad and a banker and a travel agent and a psychiatrist. And no, really, I mean, that's what you're dealing with. It's 14 year old boys that have great pool skills.
They don't really have a good mental approach or anything. They're not sound as you would like to think that they are. And so, yeah, that was quite the learning curve.
And this is the word, it's not a word, but anyway, I mis-underestimated my players. So that's what happened. I thought I had underestimated them sufficiently, but it wasn't quite enough.
They're even less.
We've got some household names here too. Shane Van Boening was on that first team that you coached. Justin Bergman, Corey Duell, Justin Hall, John Schmidt.
It's not like they couldn't play.
Oh, no. No, they're all good players, but they're psych. I mean, even Shane does not like the Moscone Cup.
And he reiterated that every year that I was the captain, that he doesn't like it. I just want US. Open and I want World Championships.
I don't care about Moscone Cup. But when you reinforce that and then you've already got a history of not doing that well, it sort of snowballs on you.
And it's really the only event in the world that Shane Van Boening's winning record is sub 50%, even today after 17 or 18 plays in it. There's no other tournament in the world that you could say he's under 50%. It's never happened.
But you cannot reinforce negativity. But he learned on his own and he knows the other players aren't gonna train like he likes to train and be as serious about it as he is. And so it kind of diminishes him.
And then he tries to overachieve and then it conspires and the other team feels like they're gonna beat him and then it snowballs further. And then the next thing you know is body language.
He's disengaged and then filters down to the rest of the team. So that happened. And then my other players aren't as good, you know.
So it was a, boy, if you knew what I went through on that one, I guess, you know, I have to attribute some of my gray hair to that. You know, we, I think that's.
You know, what an honor, 20 years after being selected to play in the first Moscone Cup, 20 years later, you're selected to be the captain of the US.
I had three years running and results aside, I do remember you talking a lot about some of the statistics you had analyzed and studied to see, where do we get our edges? Where do we get our breaks? And, you know, it starts with the lag.
And I've heard you talk about this more than once, that, you know, you don't win that lag, you're already putting yourself behind, aren't you?
What people don't understand, to include my own players on the Moscone Cup, was that the person that wins the first rack mathematically wins that rack 56.4%. If you lose the first rack, you're 43.6% to win that set.
And so the first rack's a pretty big deal. And then if it goes down to, well, these guys break and run out 30%, which can you imagine that, Allie? 30% of the time.
It's incredible.
And I remember that was one of Steve Davis' things, was to win that first game in Snooker. That was a very big deal for him.
Yeah.
To get him going.
It gets your momentum, it gets you, you know, so it was, you kind of get the upper hand. In boxing, it's who gets off first, meaning who gets the other guy first. And I think it's the same thing in pool.
Now you got the other guy on their heels, and then if you win that second game, now they're starting to doubt, can I come back, I got to win every game, I can't make another mistake, and the pressure mounts pretty quickly.
And so, yeah, that was a component of it, and then I'm thinking about the lineup.
And it was so fascinating, like a good baseball manager, he structures the lineup tailored to like, well, this guy had a fight with his wife, and he's not been playing good, and he's down, so I'm gonna put him down in the order rather than expose him
up front, where he might, well, I had that with John Schmidt, and he's a nervous guy, but he's a phenomenal talent. And so I'm thinking, where can I get the most utility out of John, I mean, I really gotta build him up, and he can do this, I know he
can do this, he's that good, but he does have, played with nagging self-doubt, for the phenomenal talent, you know, but he still has self-doubt, and sometimes he reinforces it, and he gets prone to be a bit more negative. So, I was thinking, boy,
I'll tell you what, if I put him out there, the first match is a team match, so everybody gets exposure on TV, bright lights, and like, but if you put him as the number five player to play that first match, he's out there, but even if it goes down to
the last rack, he's not exposed to the maximum pressure. And so, I think that's what I should do, I put him in number five, you know, get a little feel for it, and then my other guys, like, you know, you take Bergman and Justin Hall, they don't even
think about pressure. That's the least of their problem. They're not worried about that at all, you know. And I'm pretty confident in Shane, despite the fact his record isn't good, but who do you want out there to play besides Shane?
I mean, and people even say, well, he's not a good musketeer. You want me to leave off Shane Van Boening? You know, like that.
Are you serious? I mean, we don't have anyone that's as equal at all. And so, I'm not too worried about him, but you know, John, I want to get him where I can get him to have the best chance to score.
And so, I'm thinking, well, the first match is the team, and the second match is doubles, and then the third match is singles. And you can never play as second singles till everyone's played as singles.
But if I scheduled John for later in the singles and things don't go well, it would compound the issue of him having self-doubt. So I thought, you know what I'll do?
I'll put him in the last spot on that first match, and then the next match is doubles. I'll send him to the practice room, and then he'll play the first singles. He'll be right back out there.
And he's completely got that going. And so that's my plan. And it works out great.
We win the first set, and now we got a doubles team out there, and John's in the practice room. And I've never been to the Moscone Cup as a captain, so I want to sit table side and watch what's going on.
But my co-captain, Doc, Don Wardell, my pal, best friend, he, I said, hey, listen, I'm gonna just run up to the practice room and make sure Schmidt is going good and everything's good.
Well, I get to the practice room, John's there by himself, and the crowd is pretty hostile. It's pretty high energy.
And I see him in there, and the match has started, and John is in a negative disposition, which I don't want him to go out there and play. He had to play Mark Gray. And I go, oh, no, no, no, you're fine, Schmidt.
You just stay smooth. Whenever you feel your heart rate go up, you know where you falter is quick transition, back swing to fore swing. So just stay there, come on.
But yeah, he's looking at the TV. We can't get a role. We'd have to go to a bakery to get a role.
We're not going to win. I mean, he's almost willing to capitulate like, what? It's the second match and everybody's down there wondering, where the hell is Mark?
I mean, he's supposed to be down here. But I'm afraid to leave John because of going to a nuclear meltdown without me. So I'm staying there.
Oh, no, you got this. I know you got this. The one guy I can count on is you.
And so anyway, kind of getting pumped up a little bit. But I stay with him the whole time and we lose the second match. And then John goes down there and he plays Mark Gray, the greatest single Moscone Cup match ever.
And I'm not exaggerating. So I'll just go. Yeah, Gray wins the leg.
He breaks and runs out. John gets up there, breaks and runs out. Gray breaks and runs out.
John breaks and runs out. Two, two. Gray breaks and runs out.
John breaks. Three, three. This is incredible.
You never see this performance. Now, Gray is running out in the seventh game and tries a tough shot and jiggles it. And John runs out and breaks and runs out.
That was that set. That quick too, 20 minutes. It was like, oh man, that really gave me up.
Because now if I got John going good, I know that's going to help the other team, or rest of our team. And truly, I put John on the team partly to nurture Hall and Bergman, who were very young.
And I'm thinking, you know, they get tired of listening to old gray hair guy, and they kind of respect John, and he's kind of my intermediary. He's middle age, you know, and these kids are kids and just aloof. And, but those kids were impervious.
They don't care. You know, I mean, they just go play and whatever happens, happens. So, and John, he had a great levity to our group too.
So it was a really good thing having him on the team. And he rightfully belongs on it even now. People just don't know.
But he'd have to be handled properly because he does have that nagging self-doubt, but he can perform. And if he was given more opportunity, he would be one of America's top five.
But he also does it to himself by not traveling and playing in tournaments. He kind of is just a, he's an artist that's aloof. And you can't, you know, one time I was always telling him about Bergman, how I could help Bergman.
And I said, if it was just me and he just lived at my house and then we just play every day and I work on his break and I'll get him going, John. I guarantee you. And John was thinking about me and he goes, Oh, you'll ruin Bergman.
I go, what? What do you mean? No, you'll have him running two miles and he has to eat tofu every day.
And you'll just say he won't make a ball. And the more I got to thinking about it, damn, I think he's John's right. Bergman couldn't do that.
You know what I mean? He has to just, he's a little bit like John. He just has to kind of feel it.
And if he feels it, great. If he doesn't feel it, he's not going to perform well. But he always does play good.
That was one thing people say, Oh, you put Bergman on there. He's like your kid. No, I put Bergman on there because he belongs.
Well, anybody thinks, anybody thinks different, bring your money over here and bring your player. You can win all of St. Louis.
Everybody here will bet on him. Jason Shaw came here in his prime and Bergman beat him 80 to 59, like that. I didn't think Justin should play him, nor do I still think that, but Justin did and beat him soundly.
He got Shaw down into where he was kind of self-defeated. I mean, he was just one stroking and bad attitude and everything. Justin just never let up.
Well, we got a few other things about Mark Wilson we want to certainly talk about before we put a bow on this.
One would be your experience at Lindenwood University.
That was cool. Yeah, I didn't want to do that at all.
What happened was, I got the phone call and they're saying, we're going to think about involving a billiards program here, and your name keeps popping up when you come and talk to us about possibly coaching it.
I'm pretty busy and I don't know any high school boys. I don't want to start some thing that they're not really committed to. My life was actually going really good.
The last thing I needed was yet another low-paying job. So, I was just going to decline. And then I was urged to go and talk to them.
I did. So, I went there and there was the president, vice president, athletic director, admissions people. And they said, listen, Lindenwood is an athletic driven institution and we insist on first rate programs.
If we installed you as the lead of this billiards program, what would you do? And I was thinking back to my mom, Hayden Poole and like that.
And I thought, you know what, the first thing we're going to do, we're going to get our grades no matter what. And so and character, you know, there's always been this character issue with Poole that gives us a negative image.
We will not perpetuate that one iota. There will be no second chances. That's what I would do.
And so they said, OK, we like it. And here's what we're willing to do. If you prove to us after year one that you have a program, we'll build you an on site facility exclusive to the Billiards team and we will scholarship your athletes.
And I was kind of like, scholarship? What does that mean exactly? You know, how do we do this?
And they go, well, it won't be a full ride, but you can get them a pretty decent price to get in there. And then I started thinking about the good kids.
And even my own parents would have been really good with it if I was going to college with a partial billiards scholarship.
So it would be an opportunity for me to do something impactful for the sport and kind of maybe make it what it could be type of thing. And so we did and that led me into that.
And then the first year, I didn't schedule this easy and our team went 0 and 10. And we're primarily playing like local league teams and things like that, because there's no other college that has a program.
And so we played it and I could have scheduled a couple softies, but what are you really building at that point? And so we went 0 and 10. And then after that, we almost never lost except the pro teams.
There was a couple of pro teams that did beat us. But after that, we won the Nationals, men's and women's all seven years after that. But we didn't just win it.
We got second, third, fifth, and seventh because we eliminated ourselves. Because we're not bragging, not bragging at all. I don't mean like that.
Because when we went 0 and 10, but the next year I got Linden Shuffett and Brianna Miller. Well, Brianna won the Nationals four times. No one had ever done that.
And Linden won it the first two years. And then we had kids in there that Linden ended up getting second to Chris Reinhold Robinson, which he was on our team too. And then Sharik got second a couple of times.
So you coached over in Singapore, I think. Is that right, Ellie?
I didn't coach him, but I know him from Singapore.
But anyway, we had phenomenal talent. So all of a sudden, year two, I became a much better coach when I got good recruits in there than the first year. And it really wasn't about winning anyway.
We did like to win, but I almost never used my A team against another school because we were so far above my C team would win.
So I kind of scaled it down, just take one or two of the A players and then, only in the pro events would we take the strictly A players.
But you know, you sort of took your concepts from there that you had developed in terms of character and the way people comport themselves, sportsmanship, and carried that over into something else you created, which became US. Team Billiards.
Yeah, when Lindenwood, what happened really was, when you're assigned to be the captain of the Lindenwood Billiards program, they don't give you any structure.
And they say, okay, you're the lead of the program, and we want you to start this fall, and this is in February. So I'm like, huh, how do you do it? I mean, they don't even have a book or any guidance.
Like, we got way more information from Mike about how to do a podcast than I did. No, really. And so I started studying other coaches in sports, and I started showing Bo Schembechler, Woody Hayes, and John Wooden, and famous Bear Bryant.
And to a man, they all said, to have a long-term sustainable winning program is simply comes down to the character of your athlete. And that resonated like, huh, yeah, right.
If you're not going to be structured, you're not going to have the discipline, you're not going to be able. I thought, you know what, win or lose, whatever happens here, we're going to do it the right way.
And uniquely, okay, out of 50 sports at Lindenwood, you wouldn't suspect this nor did I. We were number one academically out of 50 sports.
And at the opening meeting, I always have an annual meeting right at the beginning of the season to state our goals and to get everybody on board. And I would say, because I didn't even think we could possibly be number one.
You know, pool players don't have that history for one thing. But anyway, I was like, hey guys, listen, I don't expect you academically to beat the chess team, but we've got to beat the football team here. Okay, you know, and so they understood it.
I just wanted to be middle. If we were just in the middle and then kind of hide and doesn't look too bad. But no, we got girls on that team that can do nuclear physics in their head while they walk around for a shot.
I mean, these are girls are smart as hell. You know, it's like, wow, this is epic. You know, well, you know, April Larson, Taylor Hanson, Carly Christo.
I mean, we had, it was so much fun. And once you get that team built, you never allow any negativity whatsoever.
Yeah, I had the pleasure of visiting and that struck me, I think, was the camaraderie, the respect that you instilled for them, for you and you for them. And the self-esteem was incredible, I think. It was remarkable people, really.
You were making people, well, go from adolescence into adulthood. And they loved you like a father, didn't they?
Yeah.
The respect.
They did. They would fight for me.
It was wonderful, really wonderful.
What could happen is that they knew I care about them. So I could criticize them any kind of way that you wanted to, to make them better. Because I was just wanting them to be better in every facet, not just pool.
And so, you know, I would stay after them on the grades. And I had tutors and counselors, like if your girlfriend leaves you or something, or distraught, I got a counselor for that. And then we had a great program.
And then, you know, how powerful is it? You got Allison Fisher visiting this week, and she's going to play and do the exercises with everybody else. If she doesn't, shouldn't you?
Maybe you ought to try to do it really good. And so this happened often enough with a variety of pro players. All the Muscolini Cup players would come through and stay for a few days like that and train with us.
And then there was a lot of special guests. And it was that really they knew they were part of something special. And but I didn't know either how it was going to turn out.
I've never did this. I don't even deal with everybody I deal with is plus or minus my age 15 years. That's my whole life.
I don't deal with the young people. But then once we got that and then it was just a known thing if you're going to do pool. And so we got the very best players from America, but also from around the world.
We had Spain, China, Singapore, Germany, Italy, two from Nepal, the last national champion, Denmark. Can you imagine? People came to little tiny Lindenwood University, 15,000 people maximum, maybe not even.
And they would come there for the Beards program. So that was pretty epic and I learned a lot.
And so then when Lindenwood discontinued the program after eight years, and uniquely, we were under budget and profitable all eight years based on the tuition rates.
And we were national champions, we're number one in grades, and we have no character issues whatsoever. I'd never let anyone deal with it. We had a couple of kids that violated it and they were gone.
And there was a couple of times we had, I'm a very lenient guy, I think, but I am pretty strict about that. You don't get a second chance. And I don't hate you, it just means you're an individual, you're not any longer part of this team.
But it was actually the best thing that I did, despite the fact that I was internally conflicted about banning someone from the team. That's not a fun thing to do. But if you don't do it, then the cancer grows.
And so I just thought, I'm not going that road. I just don't have the time, I don't have the patience, I'll teach you, I'll learn, I'll do everything for you.
And then we built that culture where, if Mike has a car and Allison needs a tip on her cue, Mike had better damn well take you across town to get that tip put on your cue. We're a family, we all help each other.
And I love that they'd be in there doing their homework and talking to each other. It was exclusive to the Bears team. And what'd you get on Problem 17?
I didn't get it. Oh, okay, I see what you're saying. Hey, we're going to the movies tonight, or like that, or we're going to the cafeteria together.
And I loved the bonding that we had there. And there was some co-ed, it wasn't the men's team and the women's team. It was just good players, all of them.
And it was also kind of fun too. We'd have a match against another school. And I put out a few of my very best ones that have present perfect form.
And then they go out there and they hardly miss a ball. And the other team just wilts. And then I put out my second volley of players that don't play anywhere near as good.
And they're way less experienced, but they look great. And the other team like, oh my God, you got to be kidding. These guys are perfect.
And then they will wilt. If they actually knew how experienced some of my players were. But the players would just go.
And then they had the, they were emboldened because they know the front line is going to take care of them even if they lose. And they just go out there and do what they're told. And never during a match would I ever coach them.
That never happened. You just play, you pick your best shot and you're expected to support it with a good stroke. Whether it be the right shot or the wrong shot.
I don't, we'll talk about it Monday in practice. But we're not, because I'm not going to go out there. You don't really learn that way.
You need to get the experience and then we need to talk about it and we'll try some different things at practice. But I don't want you going out there second guessing yourself. I want you to be committed.
So don't play a shot, if you don't sure about it, don't think, oh, he'll probably yell at me because I didn't play safe and I should have, I don't know how and this. No, you pick your best shot. I'm all board.
Just present a good stroke for me. That's all I ask. And from there, we just grew exponentially.
So that part was good. And then when they discontinue it, then US. Team Billiards, I hate to lose what I learned over eight years.
Because after the first couple of years, you don't know what you're doing. You're trying. I don't mean it like that.
And it wasn't like I wasn't putting my heart into it. But then you see little nuances of how you could conduct the practice more efficiently. And that when you came to one of our practices, it looked like a Bill Belichick football practice.
That's fantastic.
Absolutely fantastic.
It was constant activity. You never sit in there on your phone and it's all productive stuff. And we did real cutting edge stuff and we had fun.
And then I would support it with my own money too. Those kids, it was kind of funny, we would do eyes closed exercise. And for those of you that remember college days, in the middle of a semester, $20 is big money.
And so that's just the way it is. And so those kids, we were going to do this thing. And they love Buffalo Wild Wings.
I detest it because it doesn't have the acoustics conversed. It's not the wings are bad, but you can't converse. And so, but they love it.
And so they get the cafeteria seven times a week, or however many times, 21 times. But they're bored. You know, it's frozen vegetables and it's okay.
You can exist, but even anything in the middle of a semester. So I bought these coupons and then we go to practice. And now you throw the balls out on the table and then you take ball in hand.
And if you run the whole rack, you get a Buffalo Wild Wings coupon for $20. However, you have to do it eyes closed. Every shot.
Well, it's spooky, it could be. But then they learned, you know, as time went by, the first week I gave away one or two of those coupons. Well, then over the weekend, they just go in there and practice it all weekend.
Then I come back on Monday, we have practice. Oh my goodness. Coach, got one over here.
Coach, over here. Because they found out, eyes open or closed on the last stroke really makes very little difference. And you feel the speed based on the length of the swing.
And so, oh yeah, the Monday come around about 40 minutes. Okay, that game is over. We're all done with that game, guys.
We're going to do this one. But the growth that came from things like that for them, developmentally, and then their confidence. And then now, I was playing Allison Fisher last week in practice.
So however good College Boy is over here, I'm not afraid. I already lost a batter. So whatever happens.
And it really emboldens them. They're practicing with Sky Woodward and Justin Bergman often. A lot of these guys.
And then some of them have gone on and played the Moscone Cups.
That's great.
Yeah. So it was a really rewarding thing. It goes to one other thing.
Yeah, go ahead.
Linden Shuffett.
Okay. So he comes and I'm proud of him. I've known him since he's seven and his skill is not me.
It's his dad and him. Okay. So not taking credit, but Linden comes and he wins the first two national championships.
And I'm proud as hell. And he's such a good kid. He's like the role model of everybody.
I wish I had been that half that good a kid, but anyway, he's just that. And so next year, you don't have to qualify. If you win the national championship, I go, Linden, no one's ever won four men's national championship.
You're on the path. I think you can do it and we're going to do this. And he goes, Coach, I can't.
It's my sister's wedding. And oh, man, that crippled me inside. Like, what are you waiting on?
It's national. Linden, tell her you'll catch her on the next one. I mean, you act like she's never doing it again.
I mean, this is a national damn championship right here, Landon. But to his credit, he did go to his sister's wedding, which that was good. And then the following year, he got second to Chris.
So he ended up with two wins. But Pool wasn't really his driving thing either, you know, when he's become a high school teacher. He does the Bible study at Lindenwood in Missouri and likes good coffee, Mike, me and you.
He's even more serious about it than us. And then he takes care of underprivileged kids in the summer camps.
He's a great guy.
Yeah.
Yeah, good for him. So what else would you want to say about US. Team Billiards?
I tried to prompt you into that.
Oh, you did. Yeah. Well, that's going along pretty good.
It's my give back to the sport. So I've been working really hard. So we have 60 players in Peoria and 60 here in St.
Louis. We actually have a little bit more than that. And then we play team matches.
Mike got to participate in one when he came through and he'll play next time he's here. But it's just an outlet to compete in an organized structured way.
And then I try to conduct some practices and I also give some pointers on the way and then I administrate it. So it's about a seven days a month gift to the betterment of the sport.
And so once again, the character mandates in effect, proper attire and they all get stroke mechanics grades and we conduct it like that and we post all the scores. We have some good things coming to.
We got a new website that will be up and that was been a long term thing because it was totally me. But there have been some logistical setbacks along the way. And then I just fund this out of my pocket.
And so I'm not going to be rich. I made peace with that when I was 19. And so, but I am going to have a great life.
And the sport gave me a great experience in my life that I could never repay. And so this is why I continue this, despite the fact that it does encumber me, in some cases, from doing things. But you got to sacrifice something.
Plus, how far can I go? I mean, do the most you can while you're here. And I'm afraid to slow down for fear something might fall off.
So I just continue. You never know what's up next.
Well, you know, I've told you this, Mark, and I've told Allie this as well. Well, imagine a world where we could clone Mark Wilson and have him in every major metro area of the country running this type of US.
Team Billiards program, instilling the values into these players, demanding the comportment and the behavior that you get from your players, just the way they dress, long black slacks, they've got their shirts, they follow your six-step process,
their form is beautiful, they're very, very disciplined. You don't see that anywhere anymore.
No, you don't.
Wouldn't you love to have 50 programs just like that all around the country to develop some more?
Just yesterday, we were playing a match, and this happens fairly often. We'll be in the pool room.
But it's so foreign to that pool room to see everybody over here in their team jerseys and their slacks, and people come over and say, now, what's this? What's going on? I go, well, it's a little something I do to give back to the sport.
And so that's very rewarding. And then when I look out there and I watch and I study, everybody at the end of one season, which is about seven months, has gotten better. And sometimes they don't even realize it because they see it every day.
But I do because I only see it all the time. I just see it once in a while. And it's just like so invigorating.
And maybe I never lived to see it come to fruition, and maybe it never goes any further. But at least somebody knows what I learned from Sailor, Steve Davis, Allison Fisher, Jeff Carter, Jerry Bryceth.
And one of the things really in summation of all this is that when I got that first lesson from Jerry, and I was that sub horrible guy that had to change his mind about I thought maybe I'd be the best player in Wisconsin after playing three months.
And meanwhile, I was probably the worst.
And once that awakening came and Jerry worked with me, and then do you know, I looked over an hour and a half later and he had the same vigor and enthusiasm teaching somebody else that was as bad as me on a couple tables over.
And I thought, how does he do that? I'd have to be so exhausting on anyone. How could he possibly do that, you know?
But he always had that passion and it just kind of took root. I could just see it, like, you can't fake what he does. You have to actually love it.
And so even at 88 years old.
Same with you.
Yeah, yeah. But it really started there where I saw it. Otherwise I wouldn't have known it.
And...
So he inspired you and look at how many you inspire every day. Yeah, yeah.
It's super important. If... Well, I always wish for our sport to be better and I would do anything I could to include...
I wish I had more than one life to give, really, if you want to know the truth. And I mean that sincerely.
People want to know more about Mark Wilson. There's a few places you can go. You can go to playgreatpool.com and look at everything he's been up to.
Certainly you can buy his book, which I have, Play Great Pool, which is probably the best pool book co-authored with Donald Wardell that I have run across. And if you want to instill some discipline in your game, read Play Great Pool.
Mark's had an opportunity to teach some top players, including Jeanette Lee and Eva Lawrence, Mattia and several others over the course of his career. He's a magazine columnist for a while with Billiard Digest.
What else is occupying your time these days?
No, it's all pool related. Although I do train pretty seriously twice a week with guns. So I'm a pretty devoted gun guy.
I do. And I didn't do that till I was 63. We had two little girls here, my granddaughters, and I was scared to ever have guns around.
And then societies kind of collapsed. And I thought, you know, in Illinois, it's hard to get them. Maybe I should get them, but I'm not going to do it halfway.
So I'm not going to say I'm a great shot, but I can defend myself for sure. And you know, it is funny when you start something like that. And I bought this, my first gun, AR-15.
Oh, my goodness, right from the top. And so you rationalize it. Here's what the old guy does.
Well, it's worth it because, you know, I needed home defense. Oh, really? You need 30 round mag.
And that's really the best. But it's no, you rationalize like that. It's a lie.
That's a lie. It's just cool. It's just sexy.
You know, and so that's why I bought it, you know. And then I decided, no, you need a shotgun and a handgun for home defense, you know. But anyway, I got them all.
So and I drained seriously. So that's one of my little things. And then I follow the Cardinals a little bit, although they've gotten political in recent years.
So I've gotten a little bit older and grumpier and been less involved. And then it got so it's so money oriented that you can't even find them on the TV channel, which then frustrates me. And then I just like, okay, they don't care.
Then why do I care so damn much? So I've gotten a little bit grown away from that. I still follow them every day, but I pretend that I don't.
You must not have Roku because they were on Roku last night.
Yeah.
Oh, well, I do follow them. I know the players and I play poker with one of the players. Poker, that's another thing I do.
I play casino poker, which is, I did it for many, many 40, 50 years. Well, since school, since grade school, really. It's not that I'm good, it's just that the people I play against are so bad that if you play me long enough, I will finally get you.
Then, I know really, it's funny because I don't really want to be a hero. It's just a $15 an hour job with the little comps and is tax-free, and I can put my hours in when I want to.
But it is kind of a comical thing, and then sometimes I prey on people that probably are not as disciplined and maybe not too bright, and so I feel kind of guilty about that.
But they're going to lose the money anyway, and I appreciate it, and a good hypocrite can rationalize anything. So here you go. I was like, we're not going to lose it anyway.
I might as well get it. I want to add just a little bit about the book, if I could.
So Mike mentioned Play Great Pool, and I refuse to advertise it because it appears as if I'm trying to prostitute it, and it's not for everybody, and it's a college-level textbook, and I even had a student, and the guy is a nice guy, and he goes,
man, I want to buy your book from you. I go, okay, yeah, I always have some. We're walking out to my car, and I'm thinking about it. I'm thinking, look, you're not going to read that book.
That's not a good investment for you, because I can see he's not studious like that. It's not an easy read or a light duty thing. And so I talked to him out of buying it, because it's just really not right.
No, that's why I don't advertise it. And then my own wife, you know, she's like, well, no one's going to want to read it. I go, I don't care.
I'm not making it. 17 years, $70,000. I don't care.
It's my legacy in the sport. I don't care if nobody, I'll own them all. I don't care.
But anyway, so I have that. But with that doc, Don Wardell, I could never repay this man.
He was my friend and I'd worked on it for 10 years with two separate editors and it didn't really hit the target the way I thought it should, but I couldn't place what's wrong.
So he came over and he took a look at it and he said that he would trade me some editing because he could see I would miss the target a little bit.
He didn't, not money, but if I'd trade him lessons, which is in my price range compared to his hourly rate. So I said, okay, yeah, I do it.
So we started off thinking it was going to be six or seven weeks to finish it and it turned into seven years, 40 hours a week for seven years, but only one week per month because he's a hospitalist and he had a family. So he's off two weeks a month.
One week was devoted to his family, the other week was devoted to the book. So that's why he's not listed as editor but co-author and he helped a ton.
We had some interesting things, but neither one of us knew what we were getting into or you wouldn't have done it. Remember the enthusiasm and the ignorance thing I said to begin with?
Neither one of us dreamed it could be this hard or we wouldn't have done it. But thank God for the poor world we did. I mean, it's something that will last beyond my time.
So now that's why US. Team Billiards is my next thing.
That'd be like my capstone thing to my career would be if I could just get some people to understand the sport and the teachings of Sailor and Bryce's and people like that, that will never resurrect easily.
That's kind of I owe them and I have to repay them, and that's the only way I know how. So the Sailor is gone and Jerry's older, and then many others too, as Steve and Allison and Jeff Carter and on and on and on.
Many others, Siegel, Buddy Hall along the way. So I'm just kind of summarizing that and that's keeping their story alive if their memory's not gone.
Well, hopefully the three of us will be able to create some content that will help in terms of what you leave behind for the world of Pool.
Yeah, yeah. And I guess if I was gonna close up with anything, I would say this, shoot pool, not people.
Okay, so we're gonna put a bow on this, and we're gonna start a tradition. We're gonna probably do this with all of our episodes, our other guests. We're gonna finish up with three questions.
And so it'll be fun after many, many interviews to kind of compare and contrast the answers we get. But these three questions will be standard throughout. And I will defer to the only Hall of Famer on the podcast to ask the first question.
Ms. Fisher.
Here's your question, Mark. If you were 20 again and you knew what you knew now, what would you have done differently?
Gosh, Nick Varner and I talk about this. And just so everybody knows, I have not been prepped on these questions. So this is just off the cuff because after we get done, I'll think of three other things.
But with technology today, I was very willing to work hard, but I didn't have the know-how. And so it would have been so much easier to look at the video.
And I used to just have to trust Jerry's telling me right that I was too quick on the backswing, but you couldn't measure what is too quick.
And so had I known some of the things today, I could have been a better player and I would have worked hard to implement them. And then naturally with age comes wisdom of the experience.
You start off dumb and then you get a little bit smarter as time goes by. I could have used my time more efficiently. I would have been far more dedicated.
I'll never forget this, after the first Moscone Cup when I came back and it was so great and we did well. But had I known Ben like that, I would have practiced even harder. I practiced hard to go there.
I would have practiced even harder. It's a career defining moment and you only get so many of those. And so I think I would have worked harder.
It would be my answer.
Yeah, that works. Okay, second question. We're going to give you one mulligan, one shot to do over that would have made a difference.
Where would it be?
Let's see here. Ooh, that's tough. I've missed so many.
Can I just have a few?
You only get one.
Yes, I see that.
Let's see.
Well, I guess it'd be in the finals of a Wisconsin State Tournament. I got down to the final nine ball and it was straight in. I'd been making it all day and I got hyped up and rattled it, so I guess that would be one just off the top of my head.
I'm sure there's many others, though.
Is that one that would have cost you the state title then, you're saying?
Yeah. State title is in the balance. I am kind of ashamed of this, but I will tell you, when your whole heart's in it, it hurts bad, but I would never bring disrespect to the sport.
But along the hour drive home, the windshield heard some terrible vulgarity.
Really.
I mean, I would never do that in public, but I would be so upset. And I can remember going to my room after a loss, how bad it would sting. And it just dwelled, I was just like, why did you, what are you doing?
I mean, you did that, you came all this way, and now you did that.
Isn't it weird how you love the game so much, but it hurts you at the same time?
Yeah, yeah, that's what happens when you put your whole heart in there.
Yeah.
Yeah, all right, Allison.
And the final question, how would Mark Wilson like to be remembered?
I think somebody, you know, one naturally a player is way more important than any of my other accomplishments, not because I was such a great player, but because I love playing so much, is it really it?
And probably because I was a positive influence on the sport. If that was how I was remembered, that would be terrific.
That's perfect.
That is perfect. Allison, I don't know about you, but this has been a lot of fun going down memory lane with our co-host.
Yeah, I really enjoyed it. And I really appreciate everything you've done for the sport, Mark.
Well, thank you.
As a friend and just what you bring and how many lives you've changed and how much respect you've given the sport.
Yeah, I appreciate it. And then look at the great life I've had of experiences. I mean, on and on and on that I was just blessed and lucky, but it probably some serendipity in there.
And maybe because I was so bad, it drove me harder. I don't know. It's something like that, but it really gave me something that I have no.
When you reflect back on your life, I'll never forget this. Bill Kress was a great player, but he did it for the wrong reasons. He was doing it for money.
And he looked at me one day and he goes, you know, Mark, when I began, I did this out of passion. And then it became my job. And today it's my sentence.
And it was such a sad summary of down that I knew I couldn't go that route. I mean, I'm not gonna do something that I'm gonna be happy, but that was just his only way to get by, which I had other opportunities to do something.
But I chose this because I love it and still I'm interested in it.
Well, he's lucky you made a passion into a career.
That too, yeah. Yeah, you have to be insane to do it probably.
It's not easy. It's not easy.
No, I know all about it. I've opened pool rooms, I've broadcast, I've given lessons, I've played on the tour, gambled. Detail your car if I'm having a bad week.
It's all on the table just for the sake of the sport.
Well, thank you very much for being the first of, we hope, many to share your life story here with us on Legends of the Cue.
Yeah, it's an honor and privilege to be here with you, too.
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