Mike Massey - Part 4 (Hall of Fame Honors, Life Lessons, and Lasting Impact)

Mike Gonzalez 0:16

Mike, Mike, uh, when did you publish your book with uh Phil? Uh Mike's trick shots.

Mike Massey 0:23

Yeah, Phil Capel has like eight books out on Pool. He's doing one right now. He thinks is going to change the game of Pool. He thinks it's gonna make Pool the greatest game there is in the world. And that's what the Pool book's all about, you know, comparing it with other sports. Now I'm not saying it is, you know, but he this book is he's he's almost got it completed. And Phil uh, you know, he's got Play Your Best Pool, it sold thousands of copies. And and we were in uh where were we somewhere in California, and uh and I came up with the idea of doing a book and Phil and seen his books and liked the way he did it, and so we did uh it's called Mike Mass's World of Trick Shots. Now one thing I was very particular about was making sure there's some books out there that you see where the ratio of the size of the pockets and the balls and everything are really off, you know. You know, and so we I wanted to make sure that everything, the balls, the pocket size, everything was exact that the the size that's supposed to be for the size of the table.

Mike Gonzalez 1:30

To scale, yeah, to scale, yeah.

Mike Massey 1:32

And then all the tangent lines and everything and stuff. So some of these shots I would have to send to the person diagram maybe three different times to make sure everything was right on the tangent lines, the dots and everything. And we even had a had a plause meeting, you know, how the speed control and information on all the shots. But the neat thing about this book, too, is we have uh stories all through there about the travels, how shots came up, certain things that happened, you know, like in Poland, for instance. In Poland, Bogdan and I we were doing a show in Poland, and you know the shot where you stacked the racks and stuff, you know, on top of the ball? You know, he stacked it's it was like 14, I forget 14, I forget many racks all the way up to like 15 feet up to the ceiling, you know. And he'd do a shot. And he said, Mike, I want you to do this shot with me. You know, because two people can do it at the same time. You know, if you got to be just right, it's perfect. So he's out here setting the shot. We get up there and the whole thing falls, the racks, all the balls, of everything falling. So I went over and sat down, and it took him like it 30, took him like 30 minutes an hour to set the shot up again. I said, no, you've got to do it yourself, you know. And then one time, I mean, similar travels, uh, you know, uh, yeah, we got on wrong trains at times. I had to jump off of a train one time when it was running, pulled out. Uh one time we almost had a wreck in Poland done 120, 130 miles an hour, had to run off the road into the medium. Uh had a lot of experiences, you know. But well, anyway, this is this is in the book. You know, these stories are in the book. And Phil, uh part of a lot of that book is Phil's writing stuff. We teach people how to do a show. We say here that you put these shots together, and there were lines to say to do your own show. And then I got about a 30-page autobiography in there where I talk about things that happen and stuff, you know. And then even the finger pull, and then the degree of difficulty on the shots, and the first part about tangent lines and case. It's a really, really good book, you know. Then videos. Now I've done videos with Tor Lowry. Do you know Tor Lowry, Mark?

Mark Wilson 3:54

Yes.

Mike Massey 3:55

Tor Lowry is a very good instructor, and he's very good on doing video work, and he's done my music videos. He's he's shot my music videos, he put them together. He's got one I'm in the mountains playing the guitar and singing, he uses a drone. We did a video, uh, 50 shots every series player needs to know. And it's a lot of shots that come up in a game where that you might not even think there's a shot there, you know, but over the years and these things. And I showed Shane Van Boyen one day. We was at and matter of fact, Mark, was at your place. And and uh when I I sat down, I showed him two shots, and I sat there and watched him for two hours work on those two shots. So he saw how important those two shots were in a game. You know, those two little shots. And uh we was at your place in in in in uh uh St. Louis, yeah, Missouri, you're the school there, you know.

Mark Wilson 4:55

Yeah, outlanderwood.

Mike Massey 4:56

Yeah, you remember when I was there with Shant, that's when the Moscone couple was practicing or something. I forget what it was, you know.

Mark Wilson 5:01

Yep.

Mike Massey 5:02

So we were there and uh and uh I know uh uh anyway. The the book is uh you can buy it on Amazon. I think it's like now $29, $24,95. And uh or you can buy it through billiardpress.com. That's that uh that's uh Phil Capel, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 5:23

As you were sort of winding down your significant competitive career, now this is uh we go back to the sort of the mid-2000s. Uh you win the ESPN trickshot uh magic championship for the fourth time. Uh this was in 2004. That was your fourth one.

Mike Massey 5:39

Eight times total counting the team event, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 5:43

In 2005, you win your third World Snooker Trick Shot Championship. That same year, you win the the fourth WPA World Artistic Pool Championship. And about this time uh you get a call from the hall.

Mike Massey 5:58

Yep, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 5:59

They call me CA Hall of Fame.

Mike Massey 6:01

Yeah, and they called me, and it was really nice about it, that's commissioner at that time, and they said, Mike said uh we want we want to you've been nominated for the Hall of Fame. And he says, is he asked me, he says, do you feel it's okay if we put you in if we as a as a as well not putting in, but you know, nominated as meritoriously. Now I had if you took the trick shot magic competition, although, man, I'd won the national nine ball championship. So I I think I had maybe a good enough record to get in as a player, you know, especially if they considered like right now they got uh Stefano Polinga's up for it because of the trick shot. But at that they didn't recognize the trick shots and stuff. But like I said, I had a pretty good record in nine ball and eight ball, you know. And uh but they could only take one in as a player and one in meritoriously. So Robin Dobson, she was nominated, of course, as a player. So I got in uh the first time as I was nominated, and I got in as as uh meritorsly, and uh and then uh Robin got in, and we both got in at the same time.

Mike Gonzalez 7:12

And then you got inducted also into the inaugural class of the Artistic Pool Hall of Fame with Tom Rossman and George in 2024.

Mike Massey 7:21

Yeah, George Middledish, and that's something they just started. This was the first 2025, wasn't it? It was this year, but it was a 2024 World Championships to miss it, but it was this year I got inducted, and that's the WPA, which is World Pool Association, and uh Tom Rossman, Tom, who has has done as much for the game as anyone, you know, of course, colleges and everywhere. He's traveled all over the world too. Of course, doing the ministry, you know, the gospel trickshot ministry is that if anybody wants to check that out, that's gospel trickshots.org. You know, and uh and uh but but Tom uh Tom's a Tom's a good showman. He's a really good showman, he's got a lot of energy. And even now, he's a couple years younger than me, but he's still like he's like that energizing rabbit, you know. He keeps going, you know. And uh, and then George Middle dish, he's one of the old pioneers too, back, you know, from Michigan. And George, George at one time, and he had a pretty good thing going there for a couple years. He had a a van and had big painting billboards on the van and everything, and had a portable table they took around. They'd go in the shopping mall and roll that table out and do exhibitions on it, you know. And he was the first guy that I ever seen do the uh the pacing lane shop, you know. And he was a character, he had he was very charismatic and very entertaining. So, so next year, we don't, every year they're gonna do this, they'd be inducting stuff. So we got a trophy and everything, and and that was an honor. You know, anytime you inducted in the Hall of Fame, uh, I guess it's an honor. See, they have a category now, it's like people have been overlooked, you know, the younger, the older ones, you know, and David Howard, they got down as as just a yes or a no, you know. And you know, David was two-time U.S. Open winner and stuff, and he went David was a great player, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 9:15

Two very special Hall of Fame inductions. But uh, you know, if if our listeners are thinking Mike Massey just played uh Great Pool and just uh was the best trick shot artist in the world. You kept busy with a lot of other things, didn't you? Because you appeared in several movies. You're a recorded country singer. For those that uh are interested, they could uh they could go to Reverb Nation, Mike Massey, Reverb Nation Country, and up pops Mike's body of recorded country music work. You write poems, uh you're keeping busy.

Mike Massey 9:50

Yeah, yeah, I'm writing a book now, but the uh music's a passion, and it's a way of me uh clearing my mind up and getting into the presence of my creator at times, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 10:01

And for our listeners that care to do a deeper dive into first the life story of Mike Massey, they can read an article that uh really, Mike, I think dated back to your Hall of Fame induction year of 2005. It's a story that appeared uh uh story by Mike Geffner. Uh it was in Billiards Digest, and it's entitled The Agony and the Ecstasy of Mike Massey. And then and then, probably more specific to your faith journey, uh, there's an article that appeared in AZ Billiards, Tennessee Tarzan Sharing the Light. And I think between those two articles, uh your fans and our listeners can get a much better appreciation for the journey that Mike Massey's been on.

Mike Massey 10:41

Well, the the second one it would be better because the first one, at that time, that was actually Geffner came to our school, you know, and that was when I got inducted in the Hall of Fame. And a lot of the things has happened since then. I've backslid, you know, a few times. Uh I got back into the flesh. Uh, but the the second one I think would be a better one. That's Mike Massey, Tennessee Tars and Sharing the Light. And that speaks of more recent things that's happened in the last, you know, uh few years. But but also the music videos that if you like country, I'm a storyteller in my music, and there's a song that there's a song I did, Lara King from Nashville helped me write it. It's a really neat video, and you see me doing the boot shot to start off, and it's called Sharpie and the Q. It's it's a neat, it's like a little three-minute video. And it's basically what it is, is everywhere on Allison, we all have this, everywhere we go, people want an autograph, they want a selfie, want us to sign a cue ball or something, you know. So if you're a celebrity in this world, I don't care. You can be a mass murderer if you've been in prison, if you if you're a you know, if no, people won't want your autograph. You know, Manson that got out of prison, I guarantee you, people would be asking these for his autograph, you know. And that's the way it is if you've had some fame in this world. Everybody wants your autograph. So this song is about basically did they ask Jesus for his autograph? And I think you'll like it. The music's really up tempo, you know, and uh it's it's called Sharpie and a Q music video, Mike Massey.

Mike Gonzalez 12:23

Well, good. Mike, I'll I'll uh I'll tell I'll tell you this, and you'll probably remember this. Uh I know this is not PC to say it, but we said it back in the 60s. I learned this Negro spiritual back in the in the 60s in grade school. And you'll remember it. And as I think about your life and what you've just related to it, it kind of came to mind to me. Uh, and it goes somebody something like, Nobody knows the troubles I've seen, nobody knows my sorrows, nobody knows the troubles I've seen. It's just a cry and shame. And that one just kind of stuck with me, and I think it kind of fits uh what you've related in your life.

Mike Massey 13:01

Yeah, and we all we all have hurts and pains, and that see the greatest thing that I think Jesus said, it wasn't walking on water and all those miracles thing, which is great, of course, but the biggest thing is he says, I come to heal the brokenhearted and set the captives free. And I still ransom, I mean, I see I've I've seen demons and things I guarantee people you don't want to see. Not only seen, I was tortured by them.

Mike Gonzalez 13:32

Is there anything else across your career that we've not covered that you want to touch on? Otherwise, we'll uh we'll just sort of try to go into wrap-up mode here.

Mike Massey 13:40

Of course, you know, of course, I got a daughter and a son I love dearly. My daughter's an environmental scientist. And I got a couple of grandkids and stuff, uh, you know, that's uh 13, and my son, he's a banker. And they played poo for a while in the thing, but not in the pool that much. Uh my brother, to me, is my greatest hero. You know, he's 83 years old and he's still lace and block every once in a while for the construction work. And they just did a big article on my home, my hometown and stuff down there and stuff. But it's the you know, the people I've met all over the world, you know, I have friends that I've met all over the world I love dearly. Uh uh you know, sometimes I might get a little bit too religious sometimes. Uh I don't mean any, you know, I'm I'm not condemning, but I but I have a very great concern, you know, and um in my soul, and I have concern for other souls. And uh and the thing about salvation is free. Salvation is is what Jesus did on the cross. He laid his life, he took the all the punishment of the ever he took Hitler's punishment on that cross. He took everyone's. But that person has to accept it. See, they have to repent and accept it. But the the whole thing about salvation, it's all what he did. And you can't attain it through your good works. I don't care if you give billions away to the charity and all this stuff, that's good, but that ain't gonna get you there. And that's the big thing that that's the message that it took me a long time to to find out that we're saved by his grace, not by works. Because if you think you're saved by works, you'll never have any peace. It's like Mother Teresa wrestled till the day she died, whether God was real or not. She lived in total darkness. You know, now you can read this in her book. You know, we are not saved by works. You know.

Mike Gonzalez 15:46

Yeah. Well, we thank you uh so much for sharing your story, uh, your life story, your pool story. And before we go, as people will come to know, we always like to finish with three questions.

Mike Massey 15:59

Okay.

Mike Gonzalez 15:59

And so I'm gonna throw it over to Allison to ask you the first question. Alison?

Allison Fisher 16:05

So Mike, yeah. If you were twenty years old and you know what you know now, what advice would you give to that person?

Mike Massey 16:15

If I was twenty, uh well, uh when I was twenty, that's right then when I got in the military and stuff and everything and stuff, and uh and living a horrible life, you know. I would tell if you know, if you if you have a dreams, especially in the poo world, uh or any sports thing is is you know, always play by the rules. Uh you know, stay away from drugs, stay away from alcohol. Say what you know, this is something I always try to get people uh to take, you know, uh and be a good good loser. If you win, uh be a good winner, but be a good loser too, you know. I admire some of the players like Shane when he I mean Pederal when he played uh at World Championships there. He showed a lot of class when they went over and hugged each other and stuff, you know. And and that's something about the golfers, you know, Jack Nicholas and uh and uh when Jack Nichols uh his the guy that was probably giving him the most trouble playing at that time was uh he won the British Oak Tom Watson. Yeah, so he was when when him and him and Jack Nicholas showed a lot of claim. I mean he's always gentlemen when they when he won, you know. I'm sure down inside they they didn't like losing and stuff, but they always still, you know, and and don't be a complainer and uh excuses and and uh you know like uh he got lucky, you know. All these things. Just give the guy give the guy the credit if he played good, because when you play good, you want to get the credit, you know, you know, right? So then do unto others as you want them to do unto you. That's that's a golden rule, you know. So all these things, uh if I was 20, but when I was 20, I was uh you know, I was on the road hardcore hustling. So stay away from that world. It's a very tempting. These young players, somebody comes along, they see all these money matches going, and they say, man, uh, you know, and then next thing you know, if you don't watch it, you start dumping, you start stalling, and then you're not only cheating your person opponent, you're cheating yourself, you know. And that was the old school. The old school, we were stalled. We go in place and act like we can play. So stay away from that world, you know. And and if you're a poo player, that's one thing about the European players, they look on it more as a sport than Americans do. Because Americans, we grew up watching the movie The Hustler and all these movies and everything. You know, the movie The Hustler, you know, I'm an analyst on that DVD. I don't know if you've ever seen it. Do you ever see that, Allison?

Allison Fisher 18:56

Yeah, it's a great movie.

Mike Massey 18:58

Yeah, but you ever see the the the DVD where they did the uh I'm I'm where I'm in it? The movie The Hustler, if you get the collector's edition, you can watch the movie. You can watch the movie, it's in black and white, and I come up in the left hand corner and I tell you how they're thinking and stuff. I'm in color.

Allison Fisher 19:19

Oh.

Mike Massey 19:19

And then I'm in the documentary where we talk about fats and I recreate all the shots.

Allison Fisher 19:25

Nice.

Mike Massey 19:26

But the movie to me is very depressing. You know, too. It's not about pool.

Allison Fisher 19:30

But it is a good movie.

Mike Massey 19:31

Yeah, it's not about pool, really. It's about light, you know. But anyway, 20, I would I'd say, you know, still try if you if you have an ambition to becoming a professional or top player soon, stay, you know, you gotta uh just like you gotta watch your health and everything else. Even Earl right now, Earl's 63 years old and he still runs. He's still, you know, uh uh now Earl's pretty serious about his game and everything, but but I'm saying that you know, be a be a good uh you know, good loser and a good winner, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 20:07

Fair enough. Yeah, fair enough. All right, let me let me give you question number two. We're gonna give you one mulligan, one shot to do over where it might have made a difference, where would you take it?

Mike Massey 20:18

Uh well, let's see. In the trick shot magic uh well our tested world championships. The world our tested championships, I I came in second three times, and it was by one shot. There's a few different times I'd love to have a shot. One time was my one time I was showing off playing uh spitball Charlie, and we get to uh we're playing in the finals, and I'm doing the wing shots, and I started doing them one-handed, you know, and I lost by one point.

Mike Gonzalez 20:57

A little cocky, huh?

Mike Massey 20:58

Yeah, I got cocky and it backfired on me, which it has quite a few times in my career, you know. And uh, but as far as uh, you know, that's uh in the trick jump man, I'm trying to think about the competitions. The last time I played in Trick Jump Magic, I didn't even want to play in the final I I made the TV and didn't want to go out and play. I was in such pain. Uh my match before I had done something with back, and they had to take me to my room in a wheelchair. And I couldn't sleep all night long. And I but I knew I had to go down and play in the in the against Andy or to get my prize money. So I if you see me, you'll see me almost stumbling around the table like I mean, because I was in horrible pain, you know, and Andy beat me there, you know. Um but then, you know, I I don't know as far as well, once uh we tell you one shot I would take back.

Mike Gonzalez 21:59

There you go.

Mike Massey 22:00

I think I told a story before where I was playing the guy in Little Rock, Arkansas. Now what the way this came about, we're playing in Arkansas on this this nightclub. I could go in there and pick up a hundred dollars nine. This is like in the late sixties or so, you know. People would play well like two or three dollars, five dollars a game, right? So the it was a big nightclub. And the owner, they had this guy that poop played, played good one-handed. They so they come up to me and they said, you know, we're gonna have him to come in and challenge the table and play you, and we're gonna bet that he beats you, you know. So we want you to dump. So I told him, I said, I don't dump. So they bet uh quite a bit of money. So I'm thinking, you know what, I better dump. And it's one one-handed. I break, run up to the nine ball. I've got the nine ball straight in down in the corner. I'm shooting one-handed, and I in my mind, I think, man, I'm better miss this shot. I tried to miss it and shot it straight in. And I told you that story before. But that's one shot that I would take back. I would miss the shot because they roughed me up pretty good. They roughed me up.

Mike Gonzalez 23:12

That may be the most interesting uh do-over that we're gonna hear in our whole series of podcasts.

Mike Massey 23:17

Yeah, they they rough me up, took my money and and everything else. Oh tried to stab me.

Mike Gonzalez 23:23

We'll leave it to Mark to ask the final question.

Mark Wilson 23:26

This has uh definitely been entertaining because I I never heard of Charlie the Ape before or Spitball Charlie or you know Spitball Charlie.

Mike Massey 23:36

I've had this.

Mark Wilson 23:37

But I'm just saying it was an interesting interview that would bring up these names. So anyway, um let's see. If specific to the pool world, how would you like the pool community to remember Mike Massey?

Mike Massey 23:52

Well, you know, as uh the entertaining part is good because I when I was really into entertaining, that was uh I love to entertain, you know, and that and the thing about entertaining, you love the applause, you love the audience and everything and stuff, you know. And so at that time, uh but the thing about it, if I was entertaining, I've done shows, live shows with a couple thousand, three thousand people or so, especially in the snooker, you know, the tricks are you know, live shows and entertaining. But I've done shows with three or four people. And it don't matter if I was doing three or four people or if I was doing three thousand people, what I always tried to do is still a good show, you know. And that's one thing that I always tried to do was uh, you know, do a do a good show no matter how many, you know. And uh and uh the times, you know, I've tried to treat people right over the years and stuff. I know I've made mistakes at times, uh quite a few times, and uh but deep down inside, I mean, you know, I've I've called and I've seen snooker players do that, I've seen Jimmy White do it. A lot of them call fouls on herself, and I think you should call a foul on you. If you're out there playing, now there's one time that I didn't call a foul on myself, and my attitude I think was wrong. And um and I was playing Earl Strickland in the in that World Series of of nine balls. And uh I fouled, I knew that I'd fouled, but they had a referee, and I was thinking like along those lines of basketball and you know, to get away with fouls in football all the time, it's re you know. And it was wrong though. I didn't, you know, I didn't call the foul on myself, you know. And I think I might have won the match anyway, but still it gets you know it could it's all come back on you. And uh and there's I and I looked at the tape, and there's one where I played Mike Seagal, and I mean no Mike uh no Andy Seagull and the trick shop magic. And I did a shot I shouldn't have got credit for, you know. And uh I would take that back uh because uh our selfish hearts sometimes and stuff, you know, we we rationalize things out sometimes, you know. And but deep down inside we know it's wrong and it's better to go if you're conscious, and uh maybe if you lose or money or whatever and stuff, it's still more important than uh, you know, because like I said, you know and God knows. If no one else knows. See God knows every hair on our head, everyone, you know, He knows every hair, every blade of sand, everything, you know. And uh and then it's gonna come back on you. You reap what you sow, you know. And of course that we have the ability to repent, but if you're doing something and he's thinking, God, I'm gonna do this now, but I'm gonna repent later, it doesn't work that way. You you're still gonna get punished, you know. So it's better just to do the right thing. And that's that's the big thing. It's do what you feel is right in your conscience. You know, your conscience should be your guide if it's you know, if it's if it's a if it's awake, you know. I'm sure Allison feels the same way. A lot of uh poo players and stuff. I've seen snooker, I've seen Jimmy White call fouls, and I saw Ronnie O'Sullivan playing a snooker match. And the the lady put down the cue balls right near the black spot, and she put it uh it's black ball down, and it gave him a little gap to where he can make the red, but he knew that it that it should it should have been forward. He didn't even take the shot. He could have made the red and run it. He went ahead and went for another shot. I mean that shows a lot of class, you know, and you know, when he you know that showed a lot of respect for the game and everything, you know. So so that's a big thing. Yeah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 27:43

Yeah, okay. All right. Mark Wilson, what a story.

Mark Wilson 27:48

Yeah. Well, uh, you know, uh it probably didn't come through, but Mike is an incredible pool player, first off, and then his power strokes are also incredible. Uh, I've never seen other players uh capture all that, and then like he was saying earlier, to try to do an exhibition uh trick shots and then play a competitive match against top-tier player. There's there's nobody else that's gonna compare like that. So uh yeah, it was an incredible story for sure.

Mike Gonzalez 28:17

Yeah, Alison, uh quite a pleasure to have Mike on, huh?

Allison Fisher 28:20

Yeah, Mike. I really enjoyed listening to your story, and uh obviously there was a lot of heartbreak in it, and it wasn't easy, and you've done an amazing job, and thank you for entertaining us all over the many years. People all over the world you've inspired.

Mike Massey 28:37

I think you all have a good thing going here. And uh uh, you know, uh I know you all have tried to contact a few other ones that's uh you know, some of those older players you don't know how long we're gonna be around, you know. So you gotta catch it while you can, you know. Uh, you know, David Harrow, I think uh, you know, well, you know, you know players to get a hold of and everything stuff. And see, uh who was I was just talking to Alan Hopkins the other day. And uh, you know, he's of course a Hall of Famer, great player. And there's there's still a lot of them out there. I mean, you shouldn't have any trouble getting getting plenty of people for this, but that's this is great what you're doing, you know.

Allison Fisher 29:16

Well, we appreciate it. Thank you.

Mike Gonzalez 29:18

Well, we hope to get all those great players on while we can, but uh in the meantime, we sure appreciate you sharing your story with all of us on Legends of the Q. Thank you very much, Mike.

Allison Fisher 29:28

Thank you, Mike, for your time.

Mike Massey 29:30

Thank you all, and uh and uh check my music out. We'll do.

Allison Fisher 29:36

Take care. Thank you for listening to another episode of Legends of the Q. If you like what you hear, wherever you listen to your podcast, including Apple and Spotify, please follow, subscribe, and spread the word. Give our podcast a five-star rating and share your thoughts. Visit our website and support our full history projects. Until our next golden break with more Legends of the Cube, along everybody.