Nick Varner - Part 1 (From Farm Fields to Pool's Grand Stage)

Welcome to another edition of Legends of the Cue. And Mark Wilson, we got a Hall of Famer with us today.
We got a special one here, and I couldn't be happier about it. He's the winningest all around player in American history.
He owns world championships in eight ball, nine ball, ten ball, straight pool, one pocket, and probably a couple other games that I don't even know of. Nevertheless, it's the Kentucky Colonel, Nick Varner. Welcome, Nick.
Hi, Mike and Mark.
Good to see you guys.
Well, it's great to have you, Nick. We're looking forward to this course. As we shared yesterday, we kind of grew up in the same part of the country.
And part of what we want to do, we want to tell your life story, obviously. And so that sort of starts with you growing up in sort of Northwestern Kentucky. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your earliest recollections growing up there?
Well, I was raised on a farm in Southern Indiana, right across the river from where I live today.
And I was actually born in Onesboro, but I was raised on a farm in Southern Indiana.
And then when you raised on a farm, you get to work, you get to as soon as you're old enough to drive a tractor, you're probably 10 years old or maybe a little sooner, you're, especially in the summertime, you're out on the farm driving a tractor.
So you get to work. And one of the reasons why I didn't want to stay on the farm, once I went to the city, I kind of liked the city life. It looked a little easier to me.
You're not really built heavy enough to bale hay in this heat.
No, but I could drive the tractor.
I couldn't throw it. It would be tough to throw it on the wagon. But we did do a lot of hay baling.
Yeah, yeah.
And corn detasling.
Yeah, driving the combine for the weed and the corn.
So did the family have a farm for a few generations?
Yeah, a couple of generations. My dad, he was, there were six kids in his family. And my grandfather and his dad, he had been pretty successful.
He owned a farm ground. And then he rented some farm ground too that he farmed. And then dad was, I think, the only one of the six kids that didn't get a college education.
He was going to Indiana University. And his dad got sick and there was nobody left. He had to go back and run the farm and he never got back to Indiana.
And I'd kind of like to see what he would have been like as an attorney. I think he'd been a pretty good one because he's pretty quick on his feet.
And conversationally, but then when I was five years old, he bought a small pool room in Grandview, Indiana. And anyway, I remember the first time he took me down there. I remember the first shot I ever shot.
He took me to the pool room and he showed me how to hold the cue. And I'm standing on a wooden Coke case right in the corner pocket. And he said, aim at that middle diamond on the side rail.
And he said, and if you hit that middle diamond and hit that white ball in the middle, it'll go in the side pocket. So after a few times, I made that in the side. And I thought, wow, that's cool.
When that ball banked in there, I thought, wow, that's really interesting. And so I was kind of hooked from then on. And I played off and on in the wintertime when we weren't farming or I wasn't in school.
And then I got to high schools. When the Royce started playing, they had a pretty nice pool room. Close to where I went to high school in Tell City, Indiana, Tell City High School.
And then there was an eight-table pool room, all nine-foot tables. And so, and there were several guys that played pretty good. And, you know, back in those days, there weren't any leagues or tournaments.
So the only way you could grade your paper, so to speak, was you had to bet a little bit, you know. Quarter on the nine, 50 cent, or quarter on the five, 50 cent on the nine, that was a big game. And then once in a while, you played $5 a game.
But that was pretty big money back in those days. And so I got to be a pretty good local player. But then after high school, I went to Purdue University.
And I was a pretty good student. So I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do. But I didn't really want to work for somebody else.
I wanted to hopefully be able to find something where I could work for myself. So when I was a junior, they opened up a championship golf course close to where I lived. And anyway, they had a pro that they hired.
And then I thought, boy, I want to do that because I like golf. I played high school golf. And I was pretty good golfer, not really good enough to play college golf, but right under that.
And so I thought, boy, that sounds like a good job because I like to play golf. And then the guy that was a head pro, I was in West Lafayette. And he was coming from the Kokomo Country Club in Kokomo, Indiana.
And it's about an hour's drive. So I went over, I dressed up in a suit and tie. When I walked in there later, he told me, he said, who's this guy walking in here with a suit and a tie?
And back in those days, you wore a suit and tie to make a good impression. And it's a little different today. But anyway, I got the job and he was a great guy to work for.
And I worked for him six or seven years. And I went through that whole PGA apprenticeship program. I thought what I was going to do.
Cause when I was at Purdue, I saw that, you know, everybody wore gray slacks, a white shirt, a striped tie, a navy blue blazer. That was standard uniform. When you went to interview with Corporate America, that just didn't appeal to me.
I wanted to do something where I had a little more freedom. And so I went through that whole PGA apprenticeship program. You have to go through a couple business schools, a couple teaching schools where they teach you how to teach.
And then you have to pass a playing test. And so I passed a playing test. And after about five or six years, I got my PGA tour card.
It was called Class Junior A. And what that meant was you were an assistant pro. The Junior A meant you were assistant pro.
But you were ready to start interviewing for head pro jobs. And then after going through all that, I got to thinking, you know, I'm working at this golf course. I'm going to be working for a golf committee or a golf chairman at the country club.
So he would hold a lot of power over you. And then I heard that most pros don't last over, you had to move every seven years because they like a fresh face is the head pro, you know?
I mean, there's a few clubs where the guy stays there 30 years, but that's definitely the exception, not the rule. And so I decided to go into the family business, which was a pool room and a retail store.
Dad invited, my father invited me in, and then he said he would let me go play in tournaments, although that was about 1975. And there wasn't a lot going on with pro pool at the time.
Everything was usually either on the East Coast or the West Coast and the prize money wasn't exactly, you know, wasn't exactly too impressive.
So, but I was, when I was a junior and senior, well, when I went to Purdue, I didn't plan on, I didn't plan on even playing pool. There was like 10 or 15,000 students there at the time.
And I thought, there's probably a bunch of people that can beat me here. And so I didn't even go in the pool room the first semester, but when I went home for Christmas, after the first semester, I started playing with my friends.
And I won some money off of a rich kid. And so when I went back to school, I thought, I wonder if anybody else plays for money.
And so I started playing a little bit that, like I say, that's about the only reason you could, way you could grade your paper. So I went into campus pool room. I said, anybody in here plays for a little bit of money?
And he says, yeah, that kid over in that table, we'll find out he's the current Purdue champion. And he ended up going to the regional. When I went into pool room, the campus tournament was over.
And then they had the regional in February and then the national in March or usually April, I think. And he won the whole works. He won the national championship.
Well, I went over and played him a little bit, but we only played about it maybe an hour. And I was stuck a couple of games, but I thought I think I can beat this guy. But I'd never played a game of straight pool.
That's what the campus tournament was back in those days. And I'd played nine ball, banks, rotation, eight ball growing up. But two games I had never played was straight pool and one pocket.
So anyway, the next year, he was just a sophomore when he won the national. So the next year, I played him in the finals of the campus tournament. And what was funny, people get a laugh about this today.
This was 1967. They limited our campus tournament to 128 players and we played straight pool. And people are amazed when, and I mean, it filled up in like three, four, five days.
I mean, if you didn't get signed up pretty quick, you didn't get in because it was a full field. And so I played him in the finals and I beat him.
And boy, everybody at the school, the people in the union, they's all rooting for him so hard because they wanted, they thought I didn't have much of a chance to win the national title.
So they were pulling hard for the guy's name was Richard Baumgarten. But it didn't do him any good because I beat him. And then I went to the regional and back then, they only had the financing to send four people to the nationals tournament.
So it was based on your ball printing average. And so I lost by one point in the final. The guy was a real defensive player and I gambled in a couple of spots because I had to keep my, I didn't want to win the regional and not get to the national.
And my ball printing average was high enough. But I took a chance, left him on the end rail and he happened to make it and then I ended up losing.
He didn't get to go to the national either because he's a good player, but he's most, he's real defensive oriented. But the next two years, when I was a junior and senior, I went to the national tournament and then won the national championship.
And then Joe Balsis came to Purdue when I was a senior and might have been when I was a junior. But anyway, back in those days, exhibitions were really big. They put a table in the ballroom and they put bleachers in.
Probably could seat seven, 800 people and it was packed. I mean, in some ways, it was bigger in those days than it is today in terms of the exhibitions. And I thought I'd just be holding the cue because I thought pros never missed.
And I didn't realize that they missed just not very often. And so anyway, the score got to be 147 to 92 and Balsis, he's another fellow Hall of Famer and he missed the ball. And I got up and ran 58 and out.
And boy, I tell you what, I was flying high. I mean, that adrenaline was pumping big time. That was a huge, huge accomplishment for me.
Because I had no idea I had any chance to win when I went into the match. But even though I kind of had a little common sense where I knew I wasn't quite as solid as him at the time. And but I could see that I had some real potential.
That's what that match told me. And then he took the heat a little bit. He wasn't used to getting beat by a college boy.
And he said, do you gamble? And I said, well, yeah, I do gamble. And so I thought, if I could get three or four hours playing with this guy, I'd probably learn enough that it might be worthwhile losing a hundred or two.
But I didn't just want to play one game of Stray Pool and my money disappear. I wanted to try to get some value for my money. And so I thought nine ball, he shoots awful straight.
And just a year or two before he'd won that Johnson City tournament over close to where you're from, Mike, there in Johnson City. And anyway, I thought Stray Pool, I know I'm not as solid as him, even though I beat him.
But I thought I'd pick one pocket, because I didn't think he'd probably play Banks, but Banks would have probably been my best game to pick. But I picked one pocket, because I knew how to play safe.
I thought if I could keep him from running out early in the game, because he's like all good players, he's like a buzz saw when the balls are, all the balls are on the rack end of the table.
But I know enough from the Stray Pool to kind of, I thought I had a chance to maybe keep from losing the first or second shot by playing safe. And then what I didn't realize was how important banking was in one pocket as well as playing safe.
And he was like a fish out of water at the banks where you had to load it up with English.
And I didn't get that from one pocket, but I got it from bank and where you have to lag the ball at the hole to keep from leaving the guy a cross corner or something bank.
And I knew enough from that from, and if he could hit the banks firm, he was deadly. But boy, when he had to roll him pocket speed, he was a little bit like a fish out of water.
And one of the things that's interesting about him, when he played over in Johnson City that year, he was playing Ed Kelly, and Ed Kelly won the nine ball in the one pocket.
And so that year there's only two players and all around his bosses, he won the straight pool. Well, everybody thought Kelly was like a huge, huge favored.
And anyway, they flipped a coin to see which game they play first, and they played straight pool with Kelly beating. Oh, and the people betting on Kelly, they're licking their chops now.
Because they think it's going to be automatic that Kelly wins, but Balsis beat him in the nine ball and beat him in the one pocket. But that's why I was a little surprised when I beat him.
But I realized that, you know, you're playing a short race to four there at Johnson City, and, you know, Balsis is certainly capable. You make a mistake. He will punish you, because he can run that eight and out as good as Kelly could.
And so probably the games didn't get up table very much. And it was mostly a shot making and an offensive one pocket games. And so he kind of double crossed Kelly and his fans and betters there because he won the two games he wasn't supposed to win.
And so that's when I started playing them. I didn't think I'd win the one pocket either, but I thought I could last a while. And darn if I didn't end up winning enough to pay my tuition for the whole year.
So, man, I was really, talk about flying high. And I think my game took a gigantic step forward after that night. And so I started traveling around.
In fact, I went to your, did you go to the University of Illinois?
I did, yeah.
Okay. Well, I went one weekend myself and a couple of my college friends, we went over looking for a game to champagne. And we stopped.
One thing I always liked to do, I wanted a car with a good battery and a full tank of gas for, I went into pool so I could get home. And so anyway, I stopped and this guy, he's filling my tank up.
And I said, where do they play pool for money around here? And he said, well, I play myself. He said, so he said, let me check with my boss in here and see if I can get off.
He says, there's a bowling alley right down the street here where we can play. So anyway, he didn't have a very good night. And you might've got your tank filled up the next few days, but I bet you didn't get your windows washed.
Did you make it to the Union in Champaign?
That's where all the pool, you know, the gold crowns were in town.
Yeah, yeah. I don't think I made it there, that trip. I just got to that bowling alley.
So how old was Joe when you played him in 1970?
Oh gosh, I don't know.
I'm guessing 50. He might have been a little older, but he was at the top of his game. I'd guess about 50.
And so that was huge for me. And then there was another, Joe did a lot of exhibitions and I never beat him again. I never beat him again until 1980.
That was 69 or 70 when I played him. And beat him and I played him a few, not a whole lot, but three or four more exhibitions and he drilled me every time. But the next time I played him, I played him at the World Tournament in New York City.
And I played him the second round and I ran over him this time and went on and won that. That was my first world title in 1980. And so, but he was a great champion and he had a good personality.
And he really, I couldn't wait to get back to the pool room, try some of the trick shots he did and stuff. And so then after I got out of college, I didn't know really what I wanted to do, but I started doing a lot of exhibitions.
And I was still working in the summer in the golf business, six or seven months. And so I'd worked six or seven months in the golf business working on that PGA card. And then in the winter I played pool.
And then when I moved back to go into the pool room business with my dad, and he was already in the pool room business. And he had bought a pool room in the hometown where I live today. And so I started working there.
And I was promoting the pool room and giving lessons and trying to build up leagues and then selling products and tables. And then the table business was pretty good in those days.
And then I thought one day in January, I put together a package on trying to sell. Since I was two time National Collegiate Championship, and since most of the schools had tables, pool was pretty big sport.
Back in those days, they pushed a lot of the sports that are lifetime sports like pool, bowling, chess, table tennis. And that was part of what was called the Association of Colleges, Unions International, and that was the National Championship.
And so, man, I got on the phone and I'd worked out a pretty good sales pitch and I couldn't believe it. I lined up like a dozen, like in a week. At colleges, in fact, some of them were over there in St.
Louis, the junior community colleges, and McHenry College here in Illinois. And then I really got into it. I went to a national conference where entertainers go to try to block book a lot of shows.
And so I set up a booth and pool table. I got somebody to put a pool table up and it was a big hit in those days and didn't have much competition either. So eventually by about 83 or something, I got up to about 80 a year.
So it was a big part. It was a huge part of my income.
Yeah, it's like doing a golf exhibition, isn't it? You really have to learn your craft. You're a showman.
You've got to learn how to put that whole show together, don't you?
Yeah, it's all about the conversation. You've got to entertain the people. And the first thing I always tried to do was get them to laugh right in the beginning.
And like one classic was, you know, if I did a three ball trick shot or something and nobody applauded, I'd put my hands together and they'd all laugh. And I said, boy, you're a tough crowd here. So they came along pretty good after that.
They got with the program. But it's more about what you say than the shot. And it's funny, back in those days, I'd say the trick shots were the best part.
And then the match, playing the match with the best player, that was a big part of the show. So during the match, you didn't have to talk too much. But when you got to those trick shots, you had to be entertaining.
Because there wasn't so much... Back in those days, they hadn't seen anybody. So the simplest trick shot, they loved it.
It was like magic to them. And today, so many people have done exhibitions. It's not quite as strong.
But today, it's funny how the exhibition changed from the match and the trick shots to today. They want to hear the stories. They want to hear about all your experiences over the years.
And that's probably more popular than anything you do in an exhibition. I usually open it up to questions pretty early in the exhibition. I usually run a rack and talk out loud.
And then I open it up to questions. And that usually leads to not only instructional questions, but questions where I can interject a lot of funny stories and stuff. And they absolutely love it.
Yeah.
So Mark, were there a lot of guys other than Nick doing these exhibitions back in this era?
There were some. Like he said, Joe Balsis, he was around. And then Irving Crane did them.
Moscone, Fats would come through. I'm sure there's others that I'm not remembering. But just going back to Joe Balsis for anyone that heard Nick talking about that.
Here was a guy, he was a fascinating guy. He won the US Open and Lord knows how many other titles, but he was a kind of a burly built kind of a guy. And nobody hits the balls harder and straighter than Joe Balsis.
I mean, it would whap the back of that pocket when it wasn't even really necessary, but he just played that way. And so he was just amazingly accurate with it and kind of a fearless shot maker. They called him the meat man.
And later in life, I learned that was because his father was a butcher. But when I played him, I felt like because he's going to carve you up, and that's just the way it went. He was not gentle.
I will tell you that. I hardly got a turn.
Well, one thing he was good at, it was funny that year before I won that tournament 79, he had a day on Saturday before the finals for the record books. He ran so many hundreds, and he went through five of the best players in the world.
But I think eventually that's what got him in the finals because he fell flat in the finals. But he played like a machine on that Saturday. He went through people like with a buzz saw, and then I played in the next year.
But he was dangerous from behind because a couple of those matches, I think his opponent had like 130 or something and going to 150. And boy, you had to put him away because he come roaring back. And he was dangerous even from behind.
Everybody's pretty good front runner, but not everybody can play from behind.
Who were some of the other older pros, I guess, that would have influenced you and your game early on?
Well, I love that Luther Lassiter. He really dominated there at Johnson City over that 10 or 12 year period. They had that tournament over there.
He really dominated. And he also, during the 60s, he was almost unbeatable. Four out of five straight pool world tournaments.
That was the big game up until the late 70s. Nine balls started coming on. But when you won the world championship in straight pool, you were kind of considered the king of pool for the next year and to the next tournament.
But that toward the late 70s, that started to change. And but anyway, he he was such a nice guy. He was a humble guy, just pretty nothing fancy.
And my boy could he play and he I first time I went to Johnson City, I asked a pretty good player from Cincinnati, Joey Spade, I said, anybody ever gamble with this Luther? And, and he said, well, not unless they're crazy.
And, and first time I went to Johnson City, he said, he said, who'd you draw? I said, well, I drew Lassiter. He said, well, not the first round, but I drew him in the nine ball.
It wasn't my first professional match. Ed Kelly was my first match in Johnson City. And, and then he said, well, who you playing on the loser side next?
He said, well, I'm not quite ready to surrender yet.
Let me play.
And so, but him and then another guy that I got to be really good friends with was Jimmy Caras. And he did a lot of exhibitions in the Midwest. He worked for Brunswick for years.
And he, I used to, if he's within a hundred miles, man, I'm telling you, I got there at five o'clock. I just hoping to get a chance to ask him two or three questions. And I know after a while, I probably went to eight or nine or ten.
And he had such a, him and Balsis both, they really made you want to play. They had, they really got you fired up when you watched them play. They had such a good exhibition and both of them.
And they had, both had real entertaining shows. And so anyway, once I got to, to be a pro, and then when I went in the Hall of Fame, he's still in there. And we got to be best friends.
I used to love sitting with Eddie Taylor and Jimmy Caras, cause boy, they could just tell stories all night. They were so entertaining. And in fact, I talked to Jimmy Caras, got to be such good friends that I lived in Orlando for four or five years.
And anyway, they had a tournament in about every three months up in Jacksonville. And it was open to anybody up where I was from in Kentucky, most of the small tournaments, they wouldn't even let me play in them. And down there, they was open.
I thought, wow, this is sweet here. And so Jimmy used to, he was living with his daughter there in Jacksonville, and he used to come out and watch me play. And we'd go to dinner and got to be really good friends.
And then I actually talked to him the day that he died. And so, yeah, I was lucky. I really have a lot of respect for those old time players.
And because in Stray Pool, if you played with the Stray Pool tournaments, you could trust any of them. If they made a foul, they'd call it on themselves. And their character was just beyond reproach.
And I just loved that, just loved that those old time players are characters. And they play jam up too.
I know everybody thinks some modern players play better, but I'll tell you, one guy said that at one tournament, a guy came up to me at the US Open. He said, he said, I just talking to another player over here.
I don't want to name his name, but he said, he said, there's 10 Lassiter's on tour today. He says, what do you think about that? I said, well, obviously he never saw Luther Pluck.
And so, and I got lucky. I got to play an exhibition tour where we did several stops in North Carolina and oh my gosh, the people in North Carolina, they would bow on their knees when he walked in the pool room.
They had such fantastic respect for him. And Irving Crane, I think, gave him one of the best complements anybody said. Luther was almost unbeatable in the 60s.
And Irving handed out complements about like most people hand out $100 bills. And boy, he couldn't say enough nice things about Luther.
Irving Crane, you know, when you see him on video and stuff, he always looks like such a classy guy. You know, was that was that his his personality? Yeah.
Well, he was a Cadillac salesman for his job.
And he he was a classy guy and he always had a suit and tie. He played with a suit and tie. And yeah, he was really a class act.
I remember Lou Batera used to tell a joke about him. He says, Yeah, I stopped by to see Irving in Rochester, where Crane was from. And he said, said, it's a little bit late, but Irving answered the door and said he still had his suit and tie on.
And, and, and so, yeah, he, and I remember one year talk about a classy thing at the World Tournament in New York. And I think Jimmy Fusco ended up finishing second to Mizorak at the World Tournament. It's probably 83, something like that.
Anyway, Irving started having dementia in the case of the Alheimers, I guess, because I've never seen anything like it before or since, but Irving had a break shot.
And all of a sudden, instead of shooting at the break ball, he just shot into the whole rack and spread them apart. Well, this is, this is, I mean, a World Championship match. I mean, that's a foul.
I mean, he's supposed to lose his turn. So the referee called, called time out there and tried to explain to Irving what he had done. And then Jimmy, talk about Jimmy Fusco, the guy he's playing, talk about a classy individual.
He let Irving set up the break shot again, which is, you know, it's probably never happened before or since in any professional match and let Irving continue. I thought that was...
Wow.
Classy, five-star classy there.
Yeah, it speaks volumes about Fusco's character too. That's just the kind of guy he was as well. Class act.
Yeah, how about Moscone?
Were you able to see him play much?
I never really got to see him play. He was mostly just all trick shots. And I've heard so many stories about that guy.
And he just had to be a phenomenal player. And yeah, I never had much contact except at one Hall of Fame banquet. I sat next to him.
And I remember when I went in the Hall of Fame in 92, I ended up next to Moscone and Fats. And I thought, how did I get here? How did I make it here?
Because I just idolized those guys. And I had gambled with Fats when I was about 21, 22. Yeah.
Tell us about that. Most of the games, well, my dad, he got me started with pretty good fundamentals. But most of the games, I had to learn them by the old trial and error method.
And that's kind of a slow process. But in one pocket, I got a huge break. A guy from Evansville, Indiana, named Hubert Cokes.
They called him Daddy Warbucks, and he's maybe the most interesting guy I ever met in my whole life. And he took me under his wing. And I tell you what, he turned me into top one pocket player pretty fast in five or six months.
I was pretty well a top one pocket player and-
Isn't he in the one pocket Hall of Fame?
I don't know. But if he isn't, he should be. He's a legendary one pocket player.
I don't know if they put him in, but they may. I don't remember them doing that though. But he certainly belongs in there.
And anyway, he's from that era where him and Fats, they gambled together their whole life. And Fats, Hubert really, he's a huge man and he married one time. He's married at least three times that I know of.
And he was married for a while to a Broadway star in New York. And she worked a night in them shows. And he said, so he said, I went down.
He said, I loved the games the black played, bank pool, one pocket, had some of the card and dice games. He loved that. Well, then he hooked up with Nick the Greek up there, who was a legendary gambler.
And anyway, one night they went down there and they was playing craps and they got broke. And so the next day, Hubert's sleeping late. In the afternoon, Nick comes and knocks on Hubert's door and Hubert answers, says, what are you doing here?
He said, we lost our money last night. He said, Hubert, I got a big bankroll here.
And, and I guess that he was such an entertaining character that the guy that owned the Wrigley chewing gum just loved the guy and he could get anything from PK Wrigley that he wanted. And he said, let's go back down there and get our money back.
And so that he, he, and he could, Hubert could have done a movie and a book out of this world.
Thank you for listening to another episode of Legends of the Cue. If you like what you hear, wherever you listen to your podcast, including Apple and Spotify, please follow, subscribe, and spread the word.
Give our podcast a five star rating and share your thoughts. Visit our website and support our Pool History Project. Until our next golden break with more Legends of the Cue, so long everybody.