Nick Varner - Part 2 (From First World Title to an Unmatched Season of Greatness)

What was Fats like? I mean, he could hit a gear, couldn't he?
Yeah, he could hit a gear, and I gambled with him a lot, because Hubert, he knew Fats.
He says, a lot of people, he says, Fats matches up real good, but he said, he matches up where he's tough to beat, but he said, a lot of people don't realize it, he gets his nose open. He said, he was sailing.
And so, Hubert matched up a game for me to go over there. Anyway, we started off, I think a couple hundred a game or something, and Fats, he started out, he looked like a beginner. He couldn't make anything, he missed everything.
But he wasn't the type of guy that was gonna lose 40 barrels at the same price. He was always going to keep raising the bet. So he had a chance to get even.
And it was amazing how bad he always started off. And I remember the first time we went over there, of course, we stopped at Fats' house, and he's showing us his scrapbook and pictures with all the movie stars and stuff.
And Hubert, he really knew how to handle Fats pretty good. He says, listen, Faddy, he said, we didn't come over here to look at your scrapbook. He said, we came over here to bust you.
And I guess for years, I guess Hubert at one time used to play Fats 10-8, I guess, and spot him a couple of balls. And then toward the end, he had hardly ever beat Fats, but he came over there to play Hubert. They played for years and years.
Anyway, Fats is pounded on Hubert and Faddy, he's not humble, it's not his middle name, that's for sure. He's rubbing it in big time. And he said, he said, yeah, Hubert, he said, you might as well go get you a sandwich.
He says, I'll be taking care of all the shooting tonight. And anyway, Hubert said, yeah, he said, you know, for 50 years, a team of bulldogs couldn't get you up there to play me any even.
He said, listen, Hubert, he says, I got nine speeds and ain't nobody ever seen the last four. He said, and Hubert says, yeah, that last four is in reverse too. So they were really good at bantering back and forth and they had a lot of experience.
A couple of things that Nick told me about Hubert was that when he went to play Fats, Hubert knew Fats and knew that Nick had the game that could possibly win, just didn't lack the experience and the understanding.
So Hubert kind of took him under his wing because he saw a big upside and Hubert was about the money. But he also said that Hubert made me bet half of my money.
And Nick said to him one time, he says, well, why is it you back other guys, but you don't back me? And he said, he looked at me and he said, kid, this is for your own good. Meaning, I'm going to toughen you up so you can make a living on your own.
You don't need me. And it was really telling, right Nick?
Yeah, he said it shows, if you don't bet your own, he says it shows a weakness in your character. That's exactly what he told me.
But he's got college boy betting way more money than school at that time. He'd go to Purdue for 800 and Nick's playing 200 to rack. To start off with and then kick it up to 500 with Fats in the 69-70 era.
Yeah, yeah.
So help us, Nick, with the chronology here. You get out of college, you say you're still working kind of part-time golf. When did you give up the golf entirely and kind of go pretty much 100% pool year-round?
Probably.
I had played in most of the major tournaments up until about 1984. I won a couple of world tournaments, but there weren't that many tournaments. And I was married with a family.
But then I got a divorce, and I was trying to figure out what to do with the rest of my life. And it was devastating for about three months. I didn't even want to go into the pool room.
And finally, I got back where I decided, you know, I've done pretty good playing this pool, you know, in working in the family business, and doing exhibitions, and spending time with the family.
I thought, you know, I think I can climb up to number one in this game, because they came with a ranking point system where you could climb up to number one.
I think Pat Fleming was probably the one that put that ranking system together, another Hall of Famer. And I thought, you know, if I could get up to number one, I think a few opportunities to get endorsements and stuff might be available.
And if you're number one, you'd be first in line. So it did make a big difference when I started playing pool eight or ten hours every day. My game did get much more consistent and it really, it really was a big difference in my performance.
And right away, I started climbing up pretty fast. And then, then the Color of Money come along about the same time. My timing was pretty good.
And so a lot of opportunities opened up around that Color of Money, exhibitions and foreign trips. And, and, and so that, that was really, and then I continued. And then in 1989, I really had a year that you could only dream about.
I'll never forget. I was doing an exhibition at the Vantage Senior Championship in Clemens, North Carolina. And, and I got to know Rocky Thompson pretty well.
And he, he became a star on that senior tour. And, and, and.
Tell me about the golf senior tour. Yeah.
Yeah. And he didn't, he played, I guess, on the regular tour, but he didn't have the success that he did on the senior tour. Well, he knew Rocky knew something about Pool.
And he knew that the year I'd had this was 1990 when I was doing the exhibition. And in fact, he knew I'd won all them tournaments. And he took me down on the tee in Jack Nicklaus and Trevino and Palmer there.
And he says, you guys think you've played good in your sport. He says, here's a guy said, you couldn't come close to his record. Said he won half the tour, won the tour, 11 out of 22.
So that was embarrassing. I mean, it was nice, but standing next to him and talking to Nicklaus and Trevino, that was a little tough next to those superstars.
And then, in fact, that tournament was where Ava Mattia, one of the lady players, we were doing an exhibition there together. They had like a, oh, they had like a gambling night before the pro-am, where they had crap tables set up.
I'm not sure they're playing for money, I think it's maybe prizes. But anyway, Mitch Lawrence was kind of the MC there. And anyway, that's where she met her husband that she's married to today.
So let me take you back to kind of your 20s, leading up to that first world title.
What was available to professionals back then? Let's talk a little bit more about, just give our listeners a feel for, were there many tournaments? Was it mostly gambling that would get you by and pay the bills?
Was it the work at the Pool Hall? What was available to you as sort of a fledgling pool professional?
Well, probably I built up that exhibition schedule. That was probably, as far as my income, that was the biggest part. And then the golf, I got out of that about 75.
I hated to lose that PGA Tour card. Because you got to play every golf course almost in the nation for nothing.
Yeah, it's a free pass, isn't it?
And that was, I enjoyed that. And then, because I went to Ohio, man, I got to play some serious courses in Ohio. And it didn't cost you anything.
And that was just the routine in golf. It was just professional courtesy, I guess you would call it. And so I was done with the golf then in 75.
And then I held on to my card. It was fun for the year, but you had to be employed to keep that card. And so then I started working in the pool room after that.
And I'll never forget one of the big Cue collectors, Bill Prout from Kansas City has such a Cue collection. It's unbelievable of expensive Cues. Well, that one year I lived in Canton, Ohio in 70, 75.
So I guess I went home on Christmas Eve. I went back to Kentucky to get up 75. Cause one year a guy offered me a job selling prefab garages in Canton, Ohio with a friend of mine.
And so anyway, I lived in Canton for a year and sold prefab garages. But, but I guess I had, if I could compete, although there weren't that many tournaments, the exhibitions, like I say, was my main source of income.
And most of the big tournaments, it was in New York and I think 1975 was the first US. And the prize money was pretty weak, so I never even went there until 86, I think. And because it wasn't hardly worth traveling that far to play in the tournament.
And then I just worked in the family business, the pool room.
Yeah, yeah. What kind of Cue stick were you playing with back then?
Well, from 1975 to 80, I played with a Tad Cue. It's a custom Cue maker out of California. And still have that Cue.
And then when I won the World Tournament, then I worked out a deal with one of the major Cue companies called Josh Cues. And so he designed a line together. We designed a line of about eight models.
And so I started selling them to pick up money. And I did that for about 11 years with him.
Well, why don't you take us through your first world title? This has been 1980 Straight Pool Championship.
Yeah, what an incredible experience that was. I'll never forget that one. Yeah, I only had one close match.
I just ran over everybody. I think 150 times 7, that's 1,050 points. And I don't think all my opponent's score put together added up to 300.
And Lou Butera, who has the same birthday, another Hall of Famer as I do, same exact birthday, May 15th. And he almost beat me. It was a pretty close match with him.
But everybody else didn't hardly get to 40 or 50, only going to 150 and I beat Sigel pretty handily. In the finals then, in any way, beating bosses, that was big. But then right before that tournament, I went to Chicago and beat everybody up there.
And I just went up there to play one guy, but ended up playing a lot of people in Chicago. And I won every match. And that was a couple of weeks before that world tournament.
I went there and man, I just played about as close to perfect as you can. But I got to the final, Sigel, he had a Saturday like bosses had the year before. He just, Mizorak had him like 139 to nothing and Mizorak never got another shot.
I don't think Sigel run 150 now, but he run well over 100 and then they got in a safety battle and then Sigel won. And then like Rampy, I think hit him with like 122 or something and he beat Rampy.
I mean, he just had one of them days where he could do no wrong. And anyway, I know when I played in the finals, back in those days, they didn't think anybody knew how to play pool unless you live between New York and Philadelphia.
They thought everybody else was a hillbilly. And when it come to playing pool, and anyway, I played that thing. I remember looking in the mirror in my hotel room, I can still visualize that where I kept saying, I'm going to win this.
I'm going to win this. I'm going to win this. Because I just didn't want to end up in a runner up spot because nobody ever remembers who that is.
And I played really good against him because I was probably at least a two to one favorite. You bet 100, you probably could get 200 back if you bet on me. And I mean, he put on a show on that Saturday, just like Boss has had the year before.
It was phenomenal. But one thing you want to never forget is every day is a new day. And one of the question people asked me a lot when they got interviewed said, what's your toughest match?
And what has been your toughest match? I said, the next one, because your resume doesn't do you any good. You know, it looks good on paper, but that's not competing, doesn't follow that resume.
Along the way, Nick, did you play the US.
Open in Chicago, the US. Open straight bull on Michigan Avenue at the Sheridan? Because I know you played in qualifiers for it.
Yeah, I played, let's see, I think I played the year of Mizerec when he's first won 1970 because I got invited because I was the national collegiate champion.
But I didn't do very good. And in that one, and then a lot of those LA World Tournaments, those were invitational and I didn't have a big enough reputation to get invited.
Yeah, and did much change for you after winning that first world title in 1980?
Yeah, yeah. One thing I noticed was the, well, a lot of players, I think, oh, I just got it, cause people said, who won that tournament in New York? They said, Nick Varner.
They said, who? And so, cause they didn't think I played very good, cause I hadn't won hardly anything, except those collegiate titles. And in some local events and stuff, kind of regional tournaments.
And so, cause I remember after winning that, I wanted to back that up so bad. I really didn't want to be a one shot wonder. And so that created some pressure, cause the next year I finished second to Sigel, in the same world tournament.
I finished second to him. And, but that would have been nice to went back to back air.
Yeah. Well, you want, you want it in 80 if we just stick to the straight pool championships. I think you run her up twice, weren't you?
And you want it in 80 and 86?
Yeah. I want it in 86. And, yeah, I'll never forget that.
I made one of the greatest shots of my whole career, not in the finals, but the semifinals. And it was a brutal shot. I just thought I was going to make it.
I don't know why.
Well, describe it, describe it for us. You brought it up. You got to describe it for us.
Well, the score was really close with another Hall of Famer, Jim Rampian.
And he had a perfect break shot. It was 147, 142. He needed a break shot plus two more.
And he just, you couldn't hardly lay the position of the break shot down any better with your hand. But I don't know what happened if I have, and I never asked him either.
Because he probably wouldn't appreciate it, because I'm sure that was a sore spot. I know he hadn't forgot that match. And because he was a premier player in Stray Pool, he was phenomenal and he was a good all around player too, outstanding.
And anyway, he, I don't know if he got to think of well, when he is over and started hitting him hard like he usually did, he kind of took some speed off and got stuck on the side of the rack and, and he didn't have a shot.
So he pushed me up to the corner and I had to cut a ball in that was maybe three inches to the left of the spot. And I'll never forget my thought processes on that shot.
I got over and it looked like a hanger, like it might as well have been hanging right in front of the pocket. And I thought, boy, this is do or die here.
Maybe I better get over there and look at the line to the pocket and take a real good look at this because I wasn't going to be able to get back to the table if I missed it. And it's one of them shots.
If you made it two out of ten, that'd be phenomenal to this day and anybody. And so I walked around, looked at that line, tried to visualize that line to the pocket. And then, instead of going back the same way, I decided to walk around.
Well, when I got to that first corner pocket, I hope I didn't make a mistake here because that shot looked like a hanger when I got over it. And I got back up. And so I walked all the way around.
Sure enough, when I got back and got over that shot, it still looked like a hanger. And I cut it right in. And then I didn't need many in one and in the finals.
So I had Hopkins, I think, 112 to 0. And then I think he got 50 or something like that. So that was my second World Stray Pool title.
Yeah, yeah.
So just coming out of that first one, just talking about it, we won't have time, obviously, to talk about every tournament you've ever won. But some of these names might be familiar to people.
Others may be new for the first time hearing some of these. Kentucky Open Nine Ball, the BCA National Eight Ball Tournament, the Illinois Open, you ended up being the Billiards Digest Player of the Year that year in 1980, didn't you?
Yeah.
Yes. Yeah, a lot of those were regional tournaments. They weren't national as far as the fields were concerned.
I'm not saying they were easy. They weren't easy to win. With partly any tournament, it's easy to win.
Tell us about playing in front of Howard Cosell in 1982.
Yeah, I was lucky there.
He kind of took a liking to me and he really buttered me up and I was playing Sigel in the finals and what a guy he was. Boy, talk about a guy that had command of the English language.
He always liked his commentating anyway, and a little bit off the subject, but I'll never forget that Minnesota Fats and those Moscone matches.
Some of those were the highest rated of anything, including the Super Bowl and all the big sporting events.
The ratings were phenomenal on those matches, and anyway, Cosell, I remember Muhammad Ali and Fats, he was interviewing both of them, because they both claimed they were the greatest.
So, Cosell had them, and oh, man, they were banning back and forth. And finally, the one that got Muhammad Ali was, Fats says, listen, Sonny boy.
He says, I was knocking my competition in when your grandpappy was still drinking corn whiskey in Kentucky. And Muhammad Ali, that was the topper. He just lifted that fat, he grabbed Faddy's hand, lifted up, says, Faddy, you are the greatest.
Oh, that's great.
Well, this was, this was what? The ABC Sports Nine Ball Invitational, I think. Is that what it was called at the time?
Yeah, the World Invitational.
It was, well, actually, I think it was called the PPPA World Championship. And there was eight players invited, and I was playing Sigel in the finals in Atlantic City. And so he just couldn't be complimentary enough to me.
He just, he said, man, he's got the eyes of a brain surgeon, and the way I was cutting them balls in. And anyway, Sigel, I started off with a big jump on him. Anyway, Sigel come to the table, so he was behind.
Back in those days, we didn't get to play much on TV. So the pressure was a little bit more intense because you didn't get many opportunities to play on ABC Wide World of Sports. And anyway, in fact, that was my first televised tournament I ever won.
And anyway, Sigel come to the table and his first words were, I forgot to play. And Cosell says, this guy is a comedian, he says. And anyway, he explains the shot, what he's going to do.
And anyway, Sigel missed. He says, well, what was it? He said, the plan was there, the execution was not.
That sounds like Howard.
Yeah, that he treated me like a king and in Sigel, he really kind of cut him down.
I don't think Sigel liked that too much.
Well, this was back in 1982. You were again the National Billiard News Player of the Year. You went on to chalk up quite a few more victories, and then we'll fast forward to 86.
You won that World Straight Pool Championship over Alan Hopkins that we talked about. Then I guess progress on to 1989, you're the US Open nine ball champion.
Yeah, let's see, I beat Kim Davenport.
I remember the finals of that match where he had this light windbreaker, and he played Sigel, and he polished him off in like no time for the finals, and anyway, he had this light jacket off, and Sigel didn't even work up a sweat, where he had to
take the light jacket off, and anyway, he started out like just like that on me. He was flying around the table. He's making everything, and I'm thinking in my chair, this is going to be an easy night.
I'm not going to have to get out of my chair, and all of a sudden, he missed a ball. I forget what the score exactly was. I don't know if it was 5-3 or 5-1, something like that.
But talk about the moment I'm turning. He hardly got another game, and I guess I was just so relaxed because I had no fear of losing, because I thought, you know, if he keeps playing like this, I got no chance.
And then all of a sudden, I remember another match just like that where I had the same feeling. It wasn't the finals, but I was playing a guy that just died. Danny DiLobarto, and I played him, I think the second round at the US.
Open in Chicago, and it might have been 89 or 90. He opened up with 108, and you could just tell the balls were opening up like butter, and they were all spreading apart in one shot, and it just looked like he's going to go 150 and out.
And I remember, I was just sitting here, I figured I'd just be shaking his hand at the end, and him beating me, but all of a sudden, after a break shot, I think he had 108, something like that, and then the ball skidded on him, which is a little bit
hard-looking. And I remember I had so much confidence when I climbed out of that chair, I just knew he couldn't win from there. I don't know what it was, but even though I thought he's going to go 150 and out, and he didn't, but I don't know.
I wish I had that, I could maintain that mindset my whole career. There'd be a lot more victories on that sheet. Because I was totally relaxed and so confident, and you didn't always feel like that.
And at some time, you struggle and you just go six inches too far for position, and you end up on the 50-yard line.
Well, Mark, I would bet Nick would have had that feeling a lot this year. We're talking about 1989. Of course, he alluded to it earlier, being almost Byron Nelson like that year, winning everything.
Eleven out of 22 events. I don't know if you've got the list in front of you, but it's just boom, boom, boom, boom.
I mean, Billiard Digest Player of the Year, obviously, you win the World Nine Ball Championship and a Hill Hill win over Grady Matthews. You were beating everybody that year.
Yeah, you know, I'm not even sure that's the best year I had. It was definitely the best year I had as far as results and performance. But I felt that year like I had an angel on my shoulder because a lot of guys would be in position to beat me.
But just something happened, you know what I mean? It, you know, because still that year, I probably lost 22 matches. I had to lose like 40 matches or something.
It wasn't like, you know, that nobody beat me that year. But boy, I tell you what, I was riding high on the confidence because I got to where I walked into the tournament.
I went up to the, I wanted to see the tournament prize money break down because I wanted to know how much money I was going to make that week. Because I knew I was going to win first. I mean, that was talk about a confident year.
That was a fantastic feeling. And then is having that kind of confidence. I remember when I had close matches, all the good players would gather around the table at the end.
If it was like close, like Hill Hill or 10-9 or 10-8, man, the players come because I could just feel the vibe so strong. They were all praying that I'll fall off because I just had won too much. I'm telling you, I could feel the vibes.
Well, when we talk back about that particular year, Nick, normally, let's say that we had between 12 and 20 tour stops per year that were really elite and good.
At the end of the year, Sigel would win two or three, Buddy Hall would win two or three, Mizraq would win one, Varner would get two, Rampy would win one, and then there would be some smattering of other guys that would just win one.
But nobody ever won 11 out of 22 before or since, so that just never happened. We were in Memphis, and Nick will remember this when I remind him, or maybe he probably had blocked it out.
But he was playing in Dallas West, and I was watching because when Nick's on that big crest, I want to try to gather any information I can.
So I'm sitting in the crowd, a huge crowd, and it's five to five in this next break, and nobody's beaten Nick at all. So here's the greatest player in the world playing in his prime, and he swung mightily at the break and missed the entire cue ball.
Okay, so now the crowd is mortified, and Nick also is shocked that this never happened. He extended his arm full out. I mean, it almost looked like it might have hurt.
But the best player in the world missed the entire cue ball on the break. And so then Nick realized how he was embarrassed and kind of chuckled a little bit. And then the crowd started to chuckle.
Then Nick laughed harder. And then it ended up in uproarious laughter, five minutes. And because just the idea that the best player in the world missed the entire ball, he then leaned against the table during that time and composed himself.
And I would just want to exit, I just want to get out of the arena. He broke and ran out and then won the set from there, maybe 11 to 5.
I mean, where most people would shrink back from that moment, and then it said, you know, this is what makes him a champion, you know, and it was incredible. The whole sequence of events, I'll never forget that experience of just feeling that.
I just know most people would will.
I do remember that because I pulled back and I caught my index finger on the forward stroke. I pulled back past my index finger, and then I hit the index finger going forward. That's why I whiffed it, because it deflected my cue so bad.
But yeah, I remember that one.
It happens to the best, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah. Well, I think it really tells you a lot more about him. You know, that grit.
I mean, it's wonderful when you just break and run out and do everything perfect, and then you don't remember that. But this, to get up and break and run after that, boy, that was something. I'll never forget it.
Yeah.
Well, what a year. What a year. And then, Nick, you go on the next year, and you win the US.
Open Nineball Championship again.
Yeah, that was the first player, I was the first player to ever repeat it. And the record stood for about 20 years. And then all of a sudden, three people beat it.
Almost back to back to back. And then Shane Van Boning won three in a row. And I had a chance to win three in a row in 88.
I never really lost hardly ever in the finals twice because a lot of the tournaments back in those days were pure double elimination where when you won the hot seat, they had to beat you twice. That's changed.
In today's world, usually they play one set. But when Mike Lebron beat me twice in the finals.
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