Alan McManus - Part 4 (Beating Stephen Hendry, Winning the Masters, and Crucible Memories)

Allison Fisher 0:14

So when you actually did win the Masters, you won the Masters, right, at Wembley, which was a massive and the Masters tournament is a phenomenal tournament. The atmosphere, the it's a really big tournament, and you came along and won that. How did that feel to you?

Alan McManus 0:30

Er It felt like it was coming. I felt like I was going to win a tournament. I do remember, you know, the the previous maybe year or two prior to that, I thought I thought I'm gonna win a tournament at some stage. It's not e it wasn't easy to win then because the top four were Davis, Henry, Parrott, and Jimmy. Amazing time, yeah. Yeah, and they were I mean I haven't looked back at my record, but nine times out of ten when I got to a semi-final, I would have been playing one of those four pretty much every time. And I would beat some of them. I had a good record against actually a lot of them, all of them. Um I think, but uh I just couldn't c another thing that I struggled with was holding my form all of that week up until the Sunday. I all you know, I always felt like I had a match where my confidence took a bit of a knock, even although I had maybe won the match. And I I think a lot of players would relate to that. You can have a good week and but then even if it's a quarter final or a semi-final or something, something happens in it, and you think I just I didn't hit the ball good there. I didn't like the way the table played, I feel like I'm hitting across it a bit, and oh the finals tomorrow, how what am I gonna do? Um a regroup because I I I think you are I always felt different on day one of a tournament to day five or six, yes, isn't it? You're different because you you've had those recent experiences, even although you you you've won those matches because isn't it a funny thing when you prepare for a tournament? When you go to the tournament, you feel old because the prep's been done, it's all good, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Allison Fisher 2:26

Ready, yeah, yeah.

Alan McManus 2:26

Prep's good, I'm ready to do it. Yeah, I feel good, and then you play terrible and you might win. Yeah. And so all of it, ooh. What was that thing again that I was enjoying doing two days ago? Yeah, right? It's hard to reset sometimes. Because all you can think about is the horrible experience. Right. That feeling, yeah.

Allison Fisher 2:46

Yeah, the feeling.

Alan McManus 2:47

And so that I found that difficult.

Allison Fisher 2:49

Yeah. Um I think everyone does deep down.

Alan McManus 2:52

Yeah. It's human. Yeah, and yeah, I always thought like Davis, I played him in a few finals. Uh, and get like Steve Davis seemed to play really good in finals. And I thought, how does he do that?

Allison Fisher 3:07

Well, the buildup over a week is that you're used to the conditions, you know, you're just uh comfortable in the arena, and it suited him, didn't it?

Alan McManus 3:17

It was just Yeah, the map But I think he was naturally good at playing in finals. Finals are different. I th for me anyway, finals were different. Yeah. Not not more difficult, just a more difficult opponent and a more difficult occasion. But I d I don't know. I I for Stephen, guys like Stephen Hendry, it was easy.

Allison Fisher 3:37

Yeah, yeah, that's what they that's what they do, that's their thing. Yeah, that's what they're good at, yeah. So you're in the final, you're playing Hendry, weren't you, in the Masters? Yeah.

Alan McManus 3:48

Um I d I had no insecurities. I just I I I don't think I ever did, really. Not when I was playing. Because I remember when it was I remember a couple of things about the final. Um I think I led at one stage in the first session, I can't quite remember. And then he went in front, and it was a bit of a toxic, he you know, we were exchanging the lead. But I I got I got really strong towards the end of it. I remember I remember he was eight seven in front. Right, and so it was a big occasion, big crowd, there was about two and a half thousand people anyway. So I I remember there was I think there was one red left eight seven behind and he fluked a snooker. And I'm that's fine, fine with that. But I looked at him and he had a s he had a smirk on his face.

Allison Fisher 4:49

Oh we like that, don't we? What does that mean?

Alan McManus 4:53

Listen, not not in a bad way, just like just like that knowing ah yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah, that how's about that then? And I I looked at him and I th no I didn't look at I didn't it wasn't I wasn't staring at him. No, it just a little glance. I just look yeah and I thought I thought he looks really smug. And I thought I was like rubbed angles up the wrong way. Yeah. I and I thought, right, okay. Okay. And it he left me a long red and I knocked out, it was a good long pot. Um one and took it in a decider. And then when I got my chance in the decider, I knew I was like, yeah, yeah. Heat's on him now, right? No, no, it's I didn't even really think about him. I just I remember when I remember when we went eight all, so first to nine. I thought, I wonder what he's gonna do here. Is he gonna leave the arena or stay? Right. And he and he left. And I thought, right, I'm gonna leave as well. And I'm not gonna come back in until he's he's in. I'm gonna come in last. I don't know whether that means any I don't it probably doesn't. And I just to not give him any edge, right? That was that that's what I thought, whether it it doesn't make any difference, really. And I thought, yeah, I'm okay with this here. And funny enough, I th the good thing I think about the end of a tournament or in a final or a semi-final, you're you become that accustomed to the pressure and the arena and all that goes with it. I think you're acclimatized to the pressure kind of goes away, doesn't it? You know, you you just become quite comfortable. I just wasn't good enough often enough to win finals, I think, would be my failing. But I felt alright. I probably just wasn't good enough. But on that night I I felt good and he didn't intimidate me at all. Uh he was amazing, but I wasn't intimidated. I I'll play. I could I'll play, no problem. But uh he he's probably gonna be better because he was better, but you know, he he wasn't that night, and well he probably was, but um I got the verdict, and I think I when you lose closely, it's it's like Sean losing the final this year against what you it's that that's the difference between winning and losing, isn't it?

Allison Fisher 7:25

You know, yeah it was one inch for Sean, wasn't it, on that ball into the side pocket.

Alan McManus 7:30

Yeah, and I mean you know, we use a place of safety shy of the bulk line and Sean's hampered. That you know, but we but when people don't think about that. It was who won? Woo yeas won 1817.

Allison Fisher 7:44

Right, right.

Alan McManus 7:45

Yeah. Yeah, I I I I I kinda look beyond it a little bit or a try you know, and and sort of with uh logical explanation or logical think I don't know, but yeah, like uh WooGeezer shouldn't have been in the final, should he, Marks Mr. Black that you know, so it was unbelievable that was.

Allison Fisher 8:07

Yeah, yeah.

Alan McManus 8:09

It's incredible, isn't it? And and so it's that that's that's the difference between win and losing, isn't it?

Allison Fisher 8:18

Yeah so was there a lot of um competition between you and Henry back in those days because you're both from Scotland. Not at all. You've got Glasgow and Aberdeen, is he from Aberdeen area?

Alan McManus 8:32

No, well Stephen's originally from Edinburgh. Edinburgh, that was it, silly me. Edinburgh, Dunfermline. Uh no, not at all. I mean I I actually I didn't know Stephen at all. When I when I was coming through as an amateur, I had never never met him. I'm and the first time I met him was about two months before I turned professional. And um it was funny enough, it was the night after he won his first world championship. Yeah, it was the night after that. It was the first time I'd ever met him. Uh he he knew my name, I couldn't believe that. But uh um so I didn't know him. He he see he Stephen was a a different animal. Like well funny enough, I've got an old photograph of the Scottish International Snooker team, about 1985 or six, eighty-five, I think. And it was all uh what seemed like old men. There was about 15 old guys, and Stephen was about 13. So like and it like but he was a little boy, but he was the best player out of the way. It was weird. So he was a different kettle of fish uh uh in in so many ways.

Allison Fisher 9:43

So how many times prior to that final, the master's final, had you played him head-to-head?

Alan McManus 9:50

Oh, I don't know. Um obviously I could find out it'd be on Q track. I played him a few times. I I would have beaten him, I think a bunch of times, a few quite a few times. Um So you're very familiar with that feeling of playing him. Yeah, I mean there was no, but yeah, it he was in a different level from not just me, I mean everyone, pretty much everyone. Um so I no, I he was chasing records, wasn't he? I mean I would I was just trying to win a tournament, but yeah, uh no, he was in a different stratosphere in in every way. I mean um and I I didn't know him at all.

Allison Fisher 10:28

And I don't think anybody did back in those days, did it? It was just him and his driver and he kept very much himself to himself.

Alan McManus 10:36

Which I think was smart on his part. Absolutely. Um yeah, I think it was smart. He I I think he took the he took the lead from what the way Steve Davis did things and yeah, he went his own way. And he it again, I d I mean even not until I had been a pro five or six years, and I didn't know Stephen at all. Pretty much you know, he because he didn't really speak to i i I d I don't take it personally because I don't think he spoke to well look he spoke to people, but he would never sit in the practice room and oh where have you who have you been practising with last week or where nothing like that. He just turned up, he practised, he played, he won and he went home. Came and he went, yeah. Yeah, and that was a good thing. I c I like that. I know Stephen's famous for he he he's like all about winning and not being mates and fri and I'm kinda like that as well. I don't like all that friendly nonsense either. At tournaments, I don't like it. I would rather be let's let's go. Compete, yeah.

Allison Fisher 11:38

Let's compete. Yeah.

Alan McManus 11:39

Yeah, and but he was cut from a uh quite a unique cloth, I think.

Allison Fisher 11:45

I was gonna say cut from a different tartan cloth. Yeah, well yeah Yeah, exactly.

Mike Gonzalez 11:52

Well you had a couple of other wins in you. You won the 94 Dubai Classic as well, and 96 you won the Thailand Open. What do you recall about those wins?

Alan McManus 12:01

Yeah, I I the the one in Dubai, I think, which was yeah, not about six months after the Masters, anyway. Um I played Ken Doherty in the final. I think no, sorry, I played Peter Ebden in the final, and um the strange thing is about these I think finals, I my memory of it, and this is the absolute truth again. I remember it was in Dubai, obviously, and there was only one flight back to the UK, uh, I I believe anyway, uh every day. And it was I still remember it was at it was at five minutes to one in the morning was the flight home. So I remember it was six all in the final, first and nine, and I'm playing Peter Eden, and I remember we went to the last interval, and I said to the guy that was with me, I said, How's the time doing? And it was maybe, I don't know, eight o'clock or whatever it was. I said, right, okay. What I'm gonna do is just so that we catch this flight, this one o'clock, 1am flight, I'm gonna go and we'll we'll get the next three frames one, and I think we can just about make the flight. That's all I thought. I didn't, I did not genuine all I cared about was the flight. Oh my word. And it it transpired that way, and we got the flight. And that so the match I don't really know. What I do remember is in the last frame, I'm eight six in front, uh Peter let me in amongst them, and they were everywhere. And I thought, perfect. I think we'll get we're gonna get the flight because I'm gonna mop these up.

Allison Fisher 13:45

I'm gonna mop them up, that's a lovely expression.

Alan McManus 13:48

Yeah, well we'll mop these up and then we'll get we'll back to the hotel, pack up, airport, happy days, perfect home, you know. Yeah, and that is the I I'm sorry I can't tell you much about the match because I just kind of can't. I just don't remember. You did just that, and and that that was funny, it was the best flight I've ever been on because it was a it's about a seven-hour flight, as you'll know, Dubai to London. And uh I was sleeping before it took off, and I was waking up just as we were coming into land. I was like, wow, and you won.

Allison Fisher 14:25

Then you woke up now and you won. Amazing, you know.

Alan McManus 14:28

That was my the the Thailand one was which was a couple of years later. I remember playing Ken in the final. I played awful. I was the final, I was absolutely dreadful, and and won 9-8 on the pink, I think. I was rubbish. I I shouldn't have won that. Ken deserved to win by a million miles. But you know, and and this is you know, with that I it's not a subject it's not a nice subject at all, to say the least. But my abiding memory of that uh week uh was uh Dunblane.

Allison Fisher 15:06

Oh yeah.

Alan McManus 15:08

That was you know, we didn't have the internet then uh it was 30 years ago. We didn't have the internet as we now know it, so it we you know reports were sketchy and we did you know right, so but it was quite close to home and and uh it I'm not gonna say it affected me badly, I'm not gonna but just because I'm fiercely proud of being Scottish and you know, where where I play golf is not that far from you know it didn't blame I i I winning didn't it didn't really mean anything I'll be honest and say that. Yeah it's nice to win but I I think certainly for Scottish but and and and everyone my thoughts were at home that week. I I I don't remember you know which day, you know. Um but that is my first that whenever I you know I never talk about that tournament. Why would I really? It's not that great a thing, but uh my first thought is what happened uh at back home. And I remember that summer I was on the golf course, so this this was I think the tournament was in March, I'm guessing, roughly. So I was on the golf course down at Trun. Uh you know, you you guys will know Royal Trun uh down in the Ayrshire coast, and so I'm on the golf course and I'm playing the whichever hole it was, the seventh or sixth or seventh, and there was a guy coming up one of the adjacent holes, and he said, Alan, how you doing, and blah blah blah. I said, Oh, how you doing? He said, Have you got a minute? I said, Yeah, sure. So I went across the fairway and you know he said um this was a guy maybe in his forties or thereabouts. He said, Oh listen, I I saw an interview that you did a few months ago recently about you know winning over in um in in Bangkok in Thailand. He said that was really nice. I said, Oh no, no, thanks. I said he said, Yeah, I I I lost my daughter.

Allison Fisher 17:29

Yeah, it was a school shooting, primary school shooting.

Alan McManus 17:33

And and Dunblane, he he'd lot and I was like, oh my goodness, you know I've been for yeah Oh, I mean beyond you know, so I again I I'm sorry for talking about that.

Allison Fisher 17:44

No, but these are effects, you know, and things that happen in you know your country and uh um Andy Murray talks too. I think he's talked about that as a tennis player.

Alan McManus 17:57

Yeah, i I I I believe uh he he he was at school that day in that school, and and you know, and so uh I believe and you know, again, I don't want to labour the point too much for you know the purposes of uh you know, but yeah, that that that's what I thought but you know, which was so sad and awful, and um that was my uh abiding memory of then. But um but uh just touching on the snooker side of it, Ken deserved to beat me all ends up. He was far better than I was, but that thing it just happened to go my way at the end, fortunately. You know?

Mike Gonzalez 18:35

Yeah. Let's talk about your uh crucible experience uh because you had uh three goes at it, uh 92, 93, 2016, World Championship semi-finalist. That's a big deal.

Alan McManus 18:49

Yeah, well, I th I don't know what I I thought it was a good deal when it yeah, my so it would have been I think my second and third year as a professional uh getting through to the semi-final. What I would say about those two experiences, I played I I can't remember in which order, I think I played Stephen and then Jimmy. Uh Stephen Henry, Jimmy White. They I was not equipped to to to to take any of them down. I just wasn't, that's the honest truth of it. Uh I did I thought I could at the time, but when I look back and think honestly, I no, no, I I wasn't no I wasn't not over two days or well three days.

Allison Fisher 19:38

Crucible?

Alan McManus 19:39

Yeah, I just wasn't, I wasn't. I if I had maybe been a I th I think I got deep in that tournament too early. You know, to to to get to the semis in my second and third season was just too early to be able to have any chance of going the distance. Yeah. And that I would love to have gotten to the semi-final maybe having been a pro six or eight or ten years, then I think you would you would have more experience and I must confess it was a bit of an occasion for me uh to get to that thing and I didn't hand I handled it okay, you know, I felt fine, but I just wasn't good enough or equipped enough to be able to- Why do you think that?

Allison Fisher 20:26

Do you think experience, firepower, tactical play, what is it that they fire power over long over a long period?

Alan McManus 20:34

Yeah, I I wasn't I wasn't winning bunches of frames quickly enough to compete, you know. When you're talking about it was first to sixteen back then. When you're talking about first to sixteen, you have to win three or four or five frames in a row. It doesn't have to be rapid, quick, but you've got to win them in fairly quick succession to put a dent in the map, you know. And I I wasn't able to do that, not in that company. I just wasn't able to I could I I could compete, but I wasn't I wasn't winning bunches of frames often enough. Simple.

Mike Gonzalez 21:12

Yeah. I mean it sort of touches on uh the discussion we had earlier about uh Tally's question. What was the difference, right? What what would have made the difference to go from this tier to the upper tier? And and you know, I can just relate my experience in interviewing 107 golfers. We only talk to World Golf Hall of Famers and major champions, right? So it's pretty enlightening to sit down for conversations with those 107 people and ask yourself that same question. What's the difference? Clearly, there is a championship mindset that comes through when you talk to people about how they approach the game. It isn't physical, uh, it's certainly mental, but but you know, they all were physically gifted, uh, all had relatively good mechanics, they were well rounded players, but the difference. that comes through for me was always mentality.

Alan McManus 22:04

Yeah, I I I I think it has to be in golf. Golf's a f golf is very like snooker in a lot or Q sports in a lot of weight hitting a still ball and but the one advantage I think golfers have o over or over Q sports is that you to me anyway you're actually not playing against anyone in golf. You've got a pencil and a scorecard in your pocket and that's your it's four or a five the other guy that has no you know but then again you can't affect them either so that maybe equals that one out. But yeah I think you're right about the the mentality thing and and maybe an example and this is probably a bad example but of of a golfer and I hope he proves me wrong for example Ludwig Goberg who has come to prominence in the last two or three years as a golfer he's maybe got he's maybe got the best best golf swing in in the history of the game are there a but it's that good. I mean Tiger looked at him on the range didn't he and he was like Jesus what the what is going on there? Wow I mean it's that good but he looks like a stiff breeze would blow him over coming down the stretch. Remember Augusta a couple of years ago standing on the 11th fairway there's no wind there's a pond on the left don't go left and he hits it left and he looks like he only has to wake up in the morning and he's gonna win but and put one foot in front of the other but it's not as easy as that his mentality to me looks weak but not weak as in there's something wrong with it it's just weak that his his way to me and I hope he proves me wrong I hope he wins six majors but I actually sat here right now I don't think he's going to win a major anytime soon because every time he looks like he's getting in the hunt he goes away like a scared I don't know what he looks he looks he looks like he doesn't I don't know I don't know if that's a stri I don't know you obviously watch tons of golf it's very straight why did Monte remember at Winged foot and oh when when Jeff Ogilvy won't I the he fanned that what happened with that seven iron what happened with it he short lived short righted it yeah yeah I don't know yeah I mean you and I have hit that shot but those guys don't hit that kind of shot yeah short right 30 yards short right I mean I did you know he's got he's hold that big swinging put on 17 he he pipes his drive down the last and then he hits the worst iron shot he's at I don't know finish line.

Mike Gonzalez 25:16

Yeah yeah maybe I I yeah has to be the finish line doesn't it's so why don't you uh why don't you bridge the gap for us if you will from from your win in Thailand 1996 to to deciding to kind of hang it up in 2021. Just talk about those years what was going on were you doing other things as well to kind of supplement income what what was that all about?

Alan McManus 25:38

Well no I mean yeah my my career was going sort of okay until maybe the mid-nouhties I would say roughly and then I wasn't I I the game then really became difficult and that I suppose this is an excuse but the fact that we were only playing six or seven or eight events every year I don't think that helped anyone far less me or anyone in particular and the regime who were running the game there was too much infighting the we got to a stage where the people who were allegedly running the game were simply not equipped to do so and the tour was in a terrible place there was not enough tournaments you were you were spending five or six or seven weeks inactive not playing not competing and so you would take a couple of weeks off because why practice all the time when there's nothing to play for and that was frustrating and and of course Barry Hern came in in 2010 and changed all that and all of a sudden everyone got busy again and we were able to be busy and play and compete and because the people who prior to Barry Hearn uh and nothing personal against them but they simply were not equipped to run a sport and they just no I and actually some of them I don't think could tie their own shoelaces as as my um but anyway um you know I don't want to say too many bad things about but I don't it's not bad just in a professional sense they were a bit of a joke in my opinion um without getting there's n no point in getting into some of it but they were not good and thankfully Barry Hairn came in and they they got shipped out and then things got better and sort of going into the from the Barry Hairn era 16 years ago I started getting to the stage I would say fairly quickly that the travel was becoming a real problem for myself and I I I enjoy I I th when you're young and you're in your twenties and maybe even your 30s you're still in a bit of an adventure I think but I really started struggling with it and getting I would get down depressed would be the wrong word I would get down two weeks before going on a long haul flight to China or anyway I really really did not like it you know and I suffered I didn't suffer I was fine I'm j I'm just a daft guy and I'll be alright but I I didn't enjoy it at all and I fortunately was offered some work in 2013 I did a little bit prior to that on the commentary side of things and and a little bit of studio and whatever and and you know that I got a little bit more of that and and so as the as the teenies went on I quickly thought you know I yeah I don't really want to be doing this anymore the travel um and that's I suppose it is an excuse um it's an excuse but I didn't I didn't want to be 50 and getting on a flight to go to Thailand or China or anywhere else you know that's really hard actually the time change the body the eating the everything is so different and I agree with you on that and I didn't really care for it either being in I don't know about you but it wasn't my favourite place to be in either China no it's so different always I I didn't mind up in the north so much where the climate's a bit sit more similar to to where I'm from but the yeah in the south the humidity it just was no fun I I really struggled with it and I I remember as well coming back from where would that have been now Shanghai uh I'm guessing maybe 10 years ago I remember I had the early morning flight coming back from Shanghai and I was I was on my own I got a taxi to the airport uh got there about four in the morning half past four in the morning 7am flight I went to the uh fortunately I was flying business class but anyway that's another thing so I went to the Emirates Lounge and I was really hungry and I had a little piece of chicken and it didn't look very nice anyway and so I'm walking to the gate to get on the flight and I thought uh oh this this doesn't feel good and so got on the flight doors closed up in the air seven hours to Dubai and I was sick as a dog for the whole flight I was I vomited about maybe a hundred times I'm guessing I don't know and I thought I was really bad and I and I still had the other seven hour flight from Dubai to Glasgow and I thought this is not much fun you know it was really quite bad um albeit it'll be fairly common actually I get I don't know people getting ill on a flight but um I got it out my system and was able to fly home the second leg but and then I another one on the back of that I was coming back from China again it was a direct flight this time to London from somewhere and I remember sat on I and I was going I was on an economy class uh seat and it was an 11 hour flight and I was sat across the aisle from Jimmy Robertson what one of the guys you know a guy that's around the top 32 top 40 top 32 right now on the snooker tour tremendous player uh lovely guy and I looked at Jimmy and I could see him suffering and I was and I thought I can't do this anymore you know you know one of those you have a moment and you thought I can this is no good you know we've all been there haven't we you know I guess yeah there's a lot of stars in the world sports and uh TV movies and they say uh I get paid to travel and I'll do the show for free and that was their attitude because it was so harsh the travel part of it exactly yeah and a lot of it is in China isn't it now a lot of the world snooker tour it is which is it's really good and it's it's really good actually seeing a lot of the younger players now who are going to China for the first time and all that little adventure thing and that they enjoy it and it's good and you know but when you've had 20 years of it maybe and you know I actually without letting the cat out of the bag too much I I remember I was saying to John Higgins um was it last season we were at a tournament and I said to John had been in China a few times um in the recent past and I said oh you know how you get known blah blah blah I said how you finding the travel these days and he said oh no yeah I don't like it you know and John was always a good traveller and he John gets on with it he's a trooper but he he even he he just not it's not easy yeah it's just not easy to get older too yeah thank you for listening to another episode of Legends of the Cube if you like what you hear wherever you listen to your podcast including Apple and Spotify please follow subscribe and spread the word give our podcast a five star rating each day stop visit our website and support our full history project until our next golden break with more legends of the Cube along everybody