Hydred Goldberg - Part 3 (From Wheelchair Pool to World Champion)

Mike Gonzalez 0:14

I just wanted to have you talk about that a little bit. I'm sure uh you would be very, very welcomed over there as a world champion, uh going to the Philippines uh uh with your pool persona and experiencing some of the things that Mark experienced over a period of time. And and uh uh you know, some of our other guests, Darren Appleton I'd mentioned, had spent several months over there, and I think he came out of there a world beater just from that experience.

Hydred Goldberg 0:39

Yeah. That's what I heard, right. You know, um when I was talking with Henrik, uh we were in Rome, he we talked about the Philippines and how huge the the interest is with Paul there. And then we we uh he brought it up, which was what are the chances, you know, that Paul is so popular, like what about the disabled community out in the Philippines? And I just thought, oh, I never even thought of that. Yeah, I mean, it's uh I heard, you know, certain areas is really difficult. Uh there's difficulty in getting around. Um, you think about playing conditions with the heat and uh sort of the the overcrowding stuff, bugs. So I was curious to find out, you know, what if there are other wheelchair pool players out there and women who women pool players. It's it's funny because there there really aren't that many. And uh, you know, with the world championships that we had for Hable recently, uh both divisions of standing and sitting were lumped together. So we only had one division for women, uh, while the men had both standing and sitting. That would be I'd be curious to see what other places.

Mike Gonzalez 2:03

Yeah, yeah. Well, let's take you back then to the development of your game as you started getting more serious about it. Maybe for our listeners uh who couldn't even fathom how the game is different, or somebody playing from a seated position, help them understand what's different. What did you start noticing about what's difficult, what's not so difficult? How did you tend to then find ways to overcome the challenging shots on the table? How did you change your pattern play to leave balls a bit more accessible to you? All that kind of stuff that you had to learn, uh, because it didn't sound like you had people necessarily mentoring you on the finer points of seated play. How did you get through with all that? Just what what do you recall about that whole process?

Hydred Goldberg 2:50

I and I may be able to speak on behalf of all seated wheelchair players, is we are highly sensitive to things like height, uh the kind of floor that we are working on, if it's a very thick carpet or concrete uh leveling of the floor. Um Hable tables uh as you all might know are slightly taller than say American pool tables, you know, um about that maybe an inch and a half. So adjustments to your playing chair, if if someone has a playing chair would uh you know make them taller, you'd uh start simplifying uh your game more. Um and I'm I'm speaking mostly with hay ball because you you're not I'm not going to be busting out like power shots or anything. You know, it'll be more maneuvering um outmaneuvering my opponent rather than um shooting them if I'm if I'm not seeing my aim quite nicely, you know? Um so yeah, I'll I'll be seeing things like the the height of the table, the way they roll, the rails. Um it won't be too different from uh able-bodied players, but definitely sensitivity to height and the floor and you know how you're aligned to the table are crucial.

Mike Gonzalez 4:33

What was the toughest shot you found uh early on that you really had to work on to get good at?

Hydred Goldberg 4:40

Oh, that's great. Uh I'll say uh draw shots. Um I found because of uh my stroking arm uh I shoot slight uh more traditionally kind of underarm. Uh I've changed my stroke a little bit where I've got my elbow tucked for sustainability now because I can't be doing this with um, you know. So we you know we have some uh different articulation of the shoulders. We can move this around in so many different ways, but in terms of uh lifting up high, um I had to adjust to a side uh stroke. And um that yeah, that's just one of one of a few things that we'll all be uh trying out differently. Like I do know that a lot of wheelchair port players do s shoot sidearm um and and that is helpful for almost any table height.

Mike Gonzalez 5:54

Yeah. That worked pretty well for Keith McCready, by the way, and maybe Ralph Reeley.

Hydred Goldberg 5:59

Yes, yes. Yeah. Um that's that's true. Yeah. I remembered seeing Keith McCready at College Billiards. It was such a it was sorry, that just kind that that was one moment that was really wonderful. It was the 2000s and um, you know, money was thrown around a lot, you know, there were a lot of games going on, and he was playing a local guy, who's probably one of the best in San Diego around that time, um, along with like Victor Castro, um was San Manoli, and they were playing on this table that was right next to the bathrooms. And there's this wall that's just horribly or the table's horribly positioned to this wall, and you had to do this crazy shot, Keith McCready, where you know, he hit the wall, he looked back, and it was a crazy draw shut and just went at it, and it was just the coolest thing. There's a banister at college billiards, so people were kind of looking over, and there's another area that you're kind of seated up high. So it it's just back early in those days, it just seemed like it was really alive and colorful. We're a lot of barking, as you know, right?

Mike Gonzalez 7:27

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, of course, we've had Keith with us on the show and he helped us relive some of those years. Of course, Mark lived them, and so Mark relishes in uh in talking about that era in terms of how how different pool was, wasn't it, Mark?

Hydred Goldberg 7:41

Yeah.

Mark Wilson 7:42

So college billiards was your primary room in San Diego, and that would would you say that was your most formative pool years?

Hydred Goldberg 7:50

Early on, yes, yes. Um and then on Q billiards. Mark, did you did you ever go to Palace Billiards in Vallejo? I I was just wondering.

Mark Wilson 8:01

I don't think I did.

Hydred Goldberg 8:02

No, okay. Yeah.

Mark Wilson 8:05

I didn't venture out there. Uh On Q is an incredible place, too. I really like that. Uh it's a very comfortable room. They have a 6x12 alley. And it's uh they have serious players, and I love the owner, Clyde. He's a uh Clyde Padre fan. Yeah, he has season tickets, so I'm always watching his posts. Yeah. He's awesome. Yeah. How about Tina? Did you know Tina Polaski? Uh oh I know Tina. Yeah. Yes, yes. So she had to be someone that would be an inspiration for you then.

Hydred Goldberg 8:41

Absolutely. Yeah, back in uh back when I was starting off in uh the pool scene back then and doing more APA uh league, I remembered Tina Pulowski um was definitely one of the top women out there. Um and uh yeah, they used to call her Filipina Tina, you know, because she had um which has since you know been changed a little bit, she says. I saw her on her birthday not too recent. Uh well, kind of recently, um, out here at Bluegrass Billiards um in New Jersey. That was that was a nice reunion moment for us there.

Allison Fisher 9:35

That's lovely. Did being a woman present a different barrier from being a wheelchair player? Or did the two become inseparable?

Hydred Goldberg 9:44

These are great questions. Who's coming up with these questions? Certainly not me.

Mike Gonzalez 9:50

We have no idea.

Hydred Goldberg 9:52

I love it. It is uh they became fused. Um mostly it kind of like a double whammy. You know, if I'm playing pool with someone and it's you know, like for shits and giggles, you know, and I'm beating them, and it's sort of it's a guy, let's say, and you know, it does it's it's kind of um not awe-inspiring, but there is something about it that is also giving me a secondary high from it. So I I think being a woman and then in a wheelchair is sort of uh if good, combined together, it's kind of deadly and cool. Huh?

Mike Gonzalez 10:44

Mm-hmm.

Hydred Goldberg 10:44

Yeah.

Allison Fisher 10:46

First date nights, take them by them pool.

Mike Gonzalez 10:49

Right.

Allison Fisher 10:50

And then never see them again.

Mike Gonzalez 10:51

Yeah. So help us with the with the chronology, because you you kind of you kind of start getting serious about pool, you're playing in some professional qualifiers and so forth. And then um at some point, I think you went into the the more the makeup career, right?

Hydred Goldberg 11:10

Yeah, I did. I did.

Mike Gonzalez 11:12

And then occupied a period of time. And then was it something then that you you kind of came back to pool after that period?

Hydred Goldberg 11:17

That's correct?

Mike Gonzalez 11:19

Okay.

Hydred Goldberg 11:19

Yep. I uh after good like nine years with San Diego Comic-Con, practically 20 years in all kind of makeup endeavors, everything from moulage, like simulative inju injury-based um prosthetics, to um like bloomingdales and Mac um counters, you know, doing more retail with makeup and weddings. Huge, that was really huge for me. I I did uh retire from pool um and that was roughly around 2019. Um But yeah, it took out a good chunk of my life and I I I love every moment of it. Um Th there was a point with my employer where there was some burnout too with makeup and uh as a trainer for a very large company um that didn't come to fruition. That really it burned me, you know. So I I felt like uh I just made the choice to uh to leave that world. You know, there's also upcoming makeup artists and just kind of making room for them, making way for them because I also didn't find myself as passionate about uh makeup. You know?

Mark Wilson 13:01

When you returned seriously to the game, how much of the player you had been was still there?

Hydred Goldberg 13:08

I knew how to hold a cue. Uh hot hot and cold. There was a lot of hot and cold feelings of uh, you know, I can do nice runs, have have a good pattern on the table, and then suddenly I'll be shooting where I you know I'm like a diamond away from the hole. And so it I felt like I was starting over again. Um frankly when I was the most relaxed was when I would be shooting more concentrated and um definitely more uh I guess focused. I felt like I've I've I'm just kind of can be very distracted, but but I can also hyper focus and and kind of uh practice uh whether it's pool or painting or guitar, I can practice for a very, very, very long amount of time.

Mike Gonzalez 14:04

Yeah.

Hydred Goldberg 14:05

So I think it's more qualitative now.

Mike Gonzalez 14:09

Idrid, when you got back into the game at this point, then is that when you sort of discovered there was a Parisport wheelchair pool community out there?

Hydred Goldberg 14:19

Yes, that uh I'd heard about it, you know. I was already in APA and I wanted to do more tournaments and I'd learned about the um National Wheelchair Pool Players Association. I did uh do quite uh a few of those events. Um I didn't stick with it because of well, you know, my makeup job, but I found myself with a a niche of maybe promoting a little bit more uh women's wheelchair sport be uh cue sports because there were only maybe two or three in the NWPA uh women who were active players at the time. Um so it was a very uh it's it's something that I know I'm in a very small niche, uh uh tiny sliver of the demographics, you know, we already see that women's pool is is already quite it it's getting larger, but it's it's smaller, definitely smaller than men's pool. And just imagine an even smaller sliver of that is wheelchair women's pool. So it's uh that's something that uh I've been thinking about a lot, you know.

Allison Fisher 15:46

Um sorry, go on. What did finding other elite wheelchair players give you that competing primarily against able-bodied players could not I uh have talked to some of my other wheelie friends about this too, because there is something quite different.

Hydred Goldberg 16:08

When you are playing in a wheelchair event, I think we're all thinking, oh, we're gonna do really good, because I play only with able-bodied people. You know, because uh typically I'm the only one in my, you know, in my town. And lots of the other wheelchair players are also the only ones in wheelchairs in their pool hall. Yeah. So you get good, great, and but then there's this weird mental block when you play other wheelchair players, and it seems to be harder. I don't know if it's just another mental aspect.

Allison Fisher 16:46

Um an analogy to that could be like I remember Jasmine growing up or myself playing with men, and you think, oh look, I've got an advantage, I play with men all the time. But then you go and play with women and you get beaten. Yes, yeah. It's the same psychological thing as well.

Hydred Goldberg 17:03

It's the same thing, it really is. Yeah, yeah. That's that's true. And then, you know, I'm I'm I played in uh Dubuque, Iowa.

Mike Gonzalez 17:16

Um That was the the uh USA Q Sports tournament?

Hydred Goldberg 17:20

That's correct, yes. Uh, it was it was an incredible event. It was the first time I did more than two events at once.

Mike Gonzalez 17:29

Um You did five, didn't you?

Hydred Goldberg 17:32

I did. Yes, I did. Wow. It is uh two um uh yeah, two women's events, uh where uh and then uh two wheelchair events as well, and then another sort of exhibition match uh on the TV table there. Uh and it really pushed me. I I enjoyed it, and sometimes I wonder, wow, how do people do this? You know, like play in so many events at once.

Allison Fisher 18:04

And I don't know, I wanted to ask you that, Ali, but it's like I don't think I have, but I mean I I've I'm gonna start I want to start playing in seniors and things like that. And I can't play in juniors anymore. I tried to, but they won't let me in. Maybe amateurs, amateurs and seniors for me now.

Mike Gonzalez 18:23

You did two, Allie, as recently as December. Two was bad enough, wasn't it?

Allison Fisher 18:27

It's very difficult, especially with that predator series with the way it was. I'd write the doubles and the singles, and that was very exhausting.

Hydred Goldberg 18:35

In Jacksonville, is that the one?

Allison Fisher 18:37

Yeah, about nine in the morning to eleven at night. It was very difficult.

Hydred Goldberg 18:41

But I was watching, yeah, I think I I'd watched some of your match with Jesus. Oh, yeah. Scotch doubles. Oh, it's incredible. It's just intense and yeah, it was almost back to back to play.

Allison Fisher 18:55

That was the first time I connected with you again in many years.

Hydred Goldberg 19:01

You and your mum, yeah, yeah, that's right. Meeting in the cafeteria. That's right.

Allison Fisher 19:09

I'm still in the tournament. Yeah, that's right. That's right. Oh dear. But if I wasn't, I'd have joined. That's right.

Mike Gonzalez 19:18

Yeah.

Allison Fisher 19:19

Yeah. It's always great though. But yeah, what's Devana Easton, the juniors get to play in the female event, the under 19, under 21, under you know, all these open events, the juniors, yeah, lots of lots of events.

Mike Gonzalez 19:34

Yeah.

Allison Fisher 19:35

How did you hear that the WPA was going to stage a Parasport Hayball World Championships?

Hydred Goldberg 19:43

I learned about it from Charles and Tarrante, who is uh uh the lead for the National Wheelchair Pool Players Association. And he told me, he said, Hi Jan know if you're interested. I was in I was over here in the East Coast in New Jersey. He he doesn't live too far from me, but he's much closer on the east side here. Um and he says, you know, to I don't know if you're interested and come and check it out. I said, I don't I don't know. He said, Um have you played Hayball before? I said no. And so that's how uh it started. Uh it so happened that uh maybe a couple days later the event was happening and I'd just landed back in San Diego from being out here, so it I I did it out of one curiosity and um convenience, but I was still kind of skeptical. I didn't know anything about Hable. I just knew that it was like on a snooker table. Um did you ever play snooker? No, no, I've practiced trying to shoot shots and those types of pockets, but never a full game. Yeah. Yeah. Don't do it to the book.

Allison Fisher 21:05

But with an English accent, you should. Yeah, I should.

Hydred Goldberg 21:09

And then if I wore my glasses too, I could look smarter. There you go.

Mark Wilson 21:14

What was your reaction to the tables?

Hydred Goldberg 21:18

Oh my gosh, it was um a little bit not infuriating, but something along the lines of, oh my god, this is a hard game. Why would we do championship on this? Or how how did this come about? And it was it was pretty amazing, especially with when you think about the way the the pool tables are made, uh the the type of rails they have, uh the cloth, what we're not used to. Uh a lot of us, you know, we're new to this game, so y you got these bouncy rails, you can't really do rail shots. Um unless you, you know, of course you're you play on those tables all the time. Uh So I I found my game to be more strategic as opposed to potting. I I just I I couldn't, you know, it was it was a hard I just think hard game for everybody.

Allison Fisher 22:14

But um your early years in chess became important.

Hydred Goldberg 22:23

Ah, you know what? That's I do see a correlation between the chess and and uh Hable. Yeah. No, because it's a good thing.

Mike Gonzalez 22:30

I don't think that Yeah, I don't think that God ever intended to have a human being use American balls with English pockets. Just saying.

Hydred Goldberg 22:43

I I gotta ask right now. Allie, Mark, this question is for you. Like I mean, I know you you've played some hable. Mark, do you play?

Mark Wilson 22:54

No, there's not a I mean I played it on a snooker table, American snooker table, which would be as close as five by ten. Yeah.

Allison Fisher 23:01

I think it's a great hybrid game. I really do, because I obviously grew up playing snooker, so I think just a smaller table is really nice. I think it's a really good and it makes you much more focused. Especially with your eyes, Mark. You know, we talked about the eye pattern. I tend to when I play on small pockets of anything, doesn't matter what the table is, I tend to have a longer hesitation, a longer gaze at the object ball before I strike.

Hydred Goldberg 23:27

Do you find yourself lower on the table as well? Like I mean, more in uh focused.

Allison Fisher 23:33

It's a I'm always low on the table anyway.

Hydred Goldberg 23:36

Yeah.

Allison Fisher 23:36

But it's much more comfortable because it's like a snooker table because it is a little bit taller.

Hydred Goldberg 23:42

Yeah, that's true. That's right. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 23:46

But should the game be played with the English balls size, the stucker ball size?

Allison Fisher 23:51

If you need that little bit of extra pocket size, Mike, yeah, of course.

Hydred Goldberg 23:56

Fine. Right.

Allison Fisher 24:00

Yeah, go back to your little stick. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 24:06

Closed bridge. Closed bridge.

Allison Fisher 24:07

I think it's a great game, but it's so popular in China. Millions of people play that game and they're fantastic at it. They're all experts. It's like Snooker in England. You go into a club, an amateur player is a very good player. It's the same with Chinese broad in China. Only multiplied by a huge population.

Hydred Goldberg 24:25

Yeah.

Allison Fisher 24:27

Oh, I wanted to ask you if you have access to a Hayball table. You know, how much access do you have to practice and none at all?

Hydred Goldberg 24:34

It was uh no, I um I did learn that Sandcastle had a table. It's about an hour away from me. Edla Down. I wasn't correct, yeah. But I never uh got to go there. I was going to practice with um Emily Duddy because I would see her on occasion at the Amsterdam Billiards Cafe in um in Manhattan area. But uh no, I haven't had any practice on the hay balls prior to the tournaments.

Allison Fisher 25:06

That's very, very difficult then to try and play on the table you never get to practice on. It's so different.

Hydred Goldberg 25:12

It it is. It is. And like you said, uh I'm I was taking more time, can't power balls or you know, I I'm super careful, like uh I'm more strategic, but then also slowed uh a rack down, you know, just because we didn't really know what we were doing either, you know.

Allison Fisher 25:33

Well it's new, it's a little more difficult.

Mike Gonzalez 25:36

Yeah, I mean hydrid really what what you did in that first heightball championship reminds me a little bit about what some of the things we heard from Chris Melling recently. You know, he'd turn up at a tournament and all of a sudden somebody hands him a cue to use and he'd win the event. So here you are walking into an event and you've never played the game before. I mean, how many sports on the planet do people walk into a venue to a world championship having never really played the game and winning the world championship? That's pretty cool. That is pretty cool. So as you went through matches, you know, from that early match until the final against Catherine, did you feel yourself getting a little more clever and a little smarter about uh how to approach the game?

Hydred Goldberg 26:18

Up until that point, I'd not lost one match at all. Uh and so it was also very encouraging to you know to to get to that point. I was finding that I were yeah, I was uh I I guess honing in or uh working more on the strategy side of it. But it's a hard game, right? It's not easy, especially come across some really skilled players, so it's yeah, it's tough.

Mike Gonzalez 26:51

So you you go to the final against Katherine Schneeberger. It goes to a spot shot shootout. Now, this is something Allie loved these, these she loved these spot shot shootouts.

Allison Fisher 27:02

Do you really? Yeah, my face says it all, doesn't it? Look at that giant smile that's not there.

Mark Wilson 27:08

Right.

Allison Fisher 27:09

I'll tell you, I'm about a 50-50 with a shootout. I am in my realm. Honestly, it's not a it's not a guarantee. There's no guarantees in it.

Hydred Goldberg 27:18

It's not, it really isn't, especially with a spot-to-spot shot as opposed to say like on a predator shootout. Right. You've got uh, you know, where you could actually see a little bit more of the angle. So uh yeah, it was it was great. I was behind in this match with with Catherine in the uh first world championships, and then uh yeah, we tied it up and then went to the shootout and did the lag uh I believe I got the lag and how to go first. Uh and then yeah, we're going back and forth with the shots I remembered making the eight ball and then uh scratching I always went for the left pocket. Um to to be honest, I I didn't I didn't practice it but I I don't know, it was it was I was able to see it so much better. It was like a very, very weird my brain uh it was just very focused in on I put a little bit of uh top right English so that I wouldn't scratch the next time and it and uh did that two in a row, I think, or three in a row.

Mike Gonzalez 28:43

Did you know going into the event what the tiebreaker format was?

Hydred Goldberg 28:48

I'd read about it, yeah. I just I didn't think I'd get there, but yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 28:53

So it was spot to spot.

Allison Fisher 28:56

That's very difficult. It is, right?

Mark Wilson 29:00

One of the oddest things about that is that spot shots, for whatever reason, so everybody has a more dominant side. I I can't explain it. Yes. And people would try to say, well, it's your dominators why I don't think so, but anyway, for whatever reason. It was an integral part of pool way back when when spot shots were and so you had to be adept at both sides of the table and playing position from them, you know. So that's something that's lost today, but I do recall vividly that uh the right side of the table was my better side.

Hydred Goldberg 29:36

Ah, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 29:37

Yeah.

Hydred Goldberg 29:38

Right.

Mike Gonzalez 29:39

So d do I recall correctly that you met Catherine in an early round go to a shootout?

Hydred Goldberg 29:45

Yeah, that's actually that's true too. We did.

Mike Gonzalez 29:47

And then that repeated itself in the final. So you win both shootouts.

Hydred Goldberg 29:52

Yes.

Allison Fisher 29:54

That's very difficult psychologically, isn't it, when you've won the first one and then you play again in the final. How did that feel? Did you feel like, yeah, I've got the advantage, or were you feeling, ooh, you know, I've won the first one. Um this is gonna be.

Hydred Goldberg 30:07

In the the finals match, Catherine is uh she was shooting really uh she was on on it and um she was she was running out uh and I felt very uh the pressure was there, even though I got her in the first match that we played, which was I think the very first match was I mean Catherine to the very last match. Uh and she was shooting much better too in the finals round. Um you could tell that there were some shots that I just didn't know what to do with um where I should have moved them away from the rail uh to get an easier shot out in the open. And I just did not see it. I was watching it and and others had told me too. And I was like, ah, yeah, why didn't I do that? But again, just inexperiments.

Allison Fisher 31:06

But if you're if you're a nine-ball player, you don't think of things like that because you shoot balls down the rail, but on a hayball table, you need to get them out so you can make them easier. You can't just shoot them down the rail.

Hydred Goldberg 31:19

Yes.

Allison Fisher 31:19

So it's just a different thinking. Yeah. Okay, what did it mean to become not merely a world champion, but the first woman ever to hold the championship?

Hydred Goldberg 31:31

It oh jeez. It it's funny because I've been asked this question so many times, and I don't know why it hasn't really it's settled it's set in uh and there's social proof, you know, like with um social media and stuff. But I uh I feel maybe it's like this weird imposter syndrome that it's not quite true yet, you know.

Mike Gonzalez 32:00

Yeah, we we smile only because you'd be amazed how often that's this has come up in our interviews with people.

Hydred Goldberg 32:07

Right? Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 32:10

Not just pool players, right? Mitch Lawrence, wonderful actor, who had this had this this feeling all the time that God, what am I doing here amongst all these stars?

Hydred Goldberg 32:21

Right exactly. We touched on that yesterday, right, Mike?

Mike Gonzalez 32:26

Yeah, it's it's it well, I'm not sure it's surprising that to to hear that, but uh you you have some like-minded fellow competitors out there.

Hydred Goldberg 32:37

I wonder why that is though. I don't know how how did uh how did you feel about your first alley?

Allison Fisher 32:46

Oh, I loved it. I broke I broke down in my mum's arms crying after I won it. This was later on in the hotel because of the pressure. I put so much pressure on myself. And then to finally get over it was the big deal. And then obviously to retain is something else. But my brother and me always talk about that imposter syndrome that we don't feel like we've had the careers that we've had. It's like, wow, did that really happen? Did it really feel a little bit like that? I do. We're like, wow, we faked it well, didn't we? We got away with it. We're like that.

Hydred Goldberg 33:20

It does, it it feels that way, a little bit of a happenstance kismet moment of uh like you said, uh kind of like that Chris Melling moment of I've never played hayball before, never done a sh shootout like that before, but it it just simply it fit. Um and my mind was in the right place at the time. And everything comes together. It came, yeah, it came together.

Allison Fisher 33:50

By the way.

Hydred Goldberg 33:51

Yeah, possibly I actually I believe in Geneva or somewhere close. Um yeah, I th I believe they they have something around there. She's got something there.

Allison Fisher 34:04

You better better work on that. Yeah.

Hydred Goldberg 34:07

Well, I currently uh own um a predator table, predator arc. My pockets are four and an eighth. So it's kind of in between uh, you know, regular professional size and then 3.89 from the Hay Ball's tables, but it's it and it's still hard, you know. Uh it it's still I think it's better to shoot on really on a little bit tighter pockets with confidence rather than Exactly, yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 34:37

Yeah.

Mark Wilson 34:38

Was defending a world championship harder psychologically than winning the first one?

Hydred Goldberg 34:45

Yes, it was it was important to me. The the uh uh little bit of an ego situation because shortly after I wanted to uh Henrik and I are uh ambassadors that are helping the poor federation in Romania, uh Bucharest Romania with Irina Bulkarian who is she's been putting on for for now ten years uh a wheelchair tournament and it's become highly popular through the years and we you know we're trying to get support from the government to help out and so um I wanted to return to uh Bucharest with another win. So it was more of a a little bit of an ego thing, but it was also um the the pressure of, you know, being on the spotlight but now having to follow it up um was definitely weighing heavy on me.

Mark Wilson 36:00

You know, validation too, when you're when you're when you're talking about if you win one, okay, but if you win two, now you really feel like you belong at that point.

Hydred Goldberg 36:13

Yes. Uh and still the the confidence wasn't really there. But yeah, that that is really the validation, the credibility that I'm actually I can actually call.

Allison Fisher 36:26

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