Jeanette Lee - Part 9 (Hall of Fame Reflections, Pool Legacy, and Life Beyond the Table)

Mike Gonzalez 0:13

Well it didn't take a long both of the the acolytics recognition to start rolling in. Let's go to 2013, inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame with Barry Hearn, by the way, who we talked about earlier. Tell us about the call to the hall.

Jeanette Lee 0:29

So the first thing I found out was that I was being inducted into the UPBA Hall of Fame. With that, I got to choose who was going to present me. So I asked one of my closest friends, Don Wardell. I was also inducted into the BCA Hall of Fame. So there's the WPBA Hall of Fame, the Women's Pro Tour, amongst my peers and all the top women that were inducting me into their Hall of Fame and the BCA Hall of Fame. And the BCA Hall of Fame for years had already been promised to my agent who had managed me almost my entire career. Tom and I were closer, had known each other longer, and he was very involved in the success in my career.

Mike Gonzalez 1:17

So big, a big honor to be inducted in both of those Hall of Fames. And in the same year, I think, right?

Jeanette Lee 1:23

I was inducted into the WPBA Hall of Fame at the Soaring Eagle Casino in Michigan during one of our big events, and it was presented by Dr. Donald Bordell and in front of a sea of top women professionals. Really, really cool because I had never been presented in any way or honored or recognized of any kind in a positive manner in front of around the WPBA. They might have played jokes and laughed, kind of roasted me, things like that, but nothing ever positive. And I didn't know what Don would say, but in his speech, he even showed x-rays of what it looks like, what I have to deal with, what you know, the adjustments I have to make. I plan my cue all closer because I can't stretch certain things. So I have to, you know, there's things that you have to do that I didn't know he even knew about or thought about. So it was a bit uncomfortable because really until then, I really was keeping a lot of my journey to myself. Um, I didn't feel there was anyone I could trust. I'm talking about with the women, not not my friends. And so I didn't share a lot. And here's this guy that goes on for like 40, it's supposed to be like 15 minutes. He went on for like 45 minutes, talking about the personal side of me and to speak it to the women that I always longed to be part of, but never was, and having them here, and then the number of people after the fact that came up and said, You really deserve this, or I'm proud of you, or I had no idea you were going through all that. How do you do it? And the amount of additional respect that I got from that was huge to me. It was huge for me. I I think I really needed that because I thought of the WPVA as my home, but I'm the outcast. You know what I mean? Like, I'm like, I belong there. That's my home. That's where I play, that's where I eat crap and walk, you know. This is my home. But then when I get home, they're all like, get out of here. Go Cinderella, go sweep something. We don't want to see you, we don't want to look at you, we don't want to sit next to you, we don't want to just go do whatever you need to do, but just stay away from us. That's the way it always felt. So to just be centered, honored, and have all these people be forced to just sit, not forced, I mean, they could have opted out of being there. There were definitely a good number of people that didn't bother to come, even though it's at a WPBA event. So they're there anyway. But in any case, yeah, I went there and it was amazing.

Mike Gonzalez 4:23

We had Mike Pinozo on the show last week with us, and uh the one thing I remember him saying is these people all deserve their night.

Jeanette Lee 4:33

Yeah. It was pretty it was pretty awesome, and that was my night because that happened before the BCA thing. So for me to get to experience that, and yeah, there were a number of people that flew out for that induction, the WPBA one.

Mike Gonzalez 4:50

Beyond the accolades and the and the recognition, you kept yourself quite busy doing a lot of different things, producing a lot of different works, including your book, A Black Widow's Guide to Killer Pool. We mentioned your memoir earlier, uh, The Black Widow, a film appearance in Nineball, and uh and currently involved in ownership of an APA league down in Florida. So Yes. You're keeping quite busy.

Jeanette Lee 5:15

Yes, I am. You know, my biggest thing right now is just trying to get my strength back up. But when I got cancer, I owned the Tampa Bay APA pool leagues by myself. And I was not doing a great job of it. It was really not my strength. My when I bought it, I had never intended to run it by myself. I was gonna do the sales and marketing side, which is my strength, and then I was having other people do the, you know, the management side of it and all the paperwork and the administrative work and all those things that I hate. But I ended up having it by myself, and then I got cancer, and I was being encouraged to sell it because I couldn't keep running it while I was sick. There was no guarantee I was even gonna live. And so I started looking at who could buy it, but none of the people that were looking to buy it seemed like good options to me. Um, I I care about my league. I care about my players, and so even though it's getting rid of it, it mattered to me who was gonna be taking the horn from there. And so, you know, I kind of struggled with that. And then I had two really good friends, Stephanie and Anthony Spano, who played in my league. Who I really, you know, I'm an instinct kind of person. I trust my instinct. I'm very often right about, you know, how I receive people. Not always perfect, but for the most part, a high percentage. And with them, I knew that they would do a great job just knowing their personalities and their work and their work ethic, but also the quality of their work. And so I asked them, and they promptly said, no, we're not interested in being league opera. And I worked on them for a month during a time that was very stressful because I was in the middle of chemo, and I'm having my neighbor, Mike and Sherry Strout from Bay Area EPA, they were kind enough to say, if you can get someone to get us all those score sheets, we'll do all that entering. They did all the admin work that I was supposed to be doing while I was sick until I could find someone. And then finally I was able to convince Anthony Stephanie to buy half my company. And so now we're partners, they've done an amazing job. We've won awards and we're a great team now. But getting back to this year currently, I started working um doing sales again for APA. And when I sold it, sold half the business. I was in the middle of chemo. We didn't know I was gonna live. There was no requirement that I had to spend any amount of time there. Only that I would make my best efforts to show up at tournaments. So right now I could just keep showing up at tournaments, wave high and be done with that, and just collect my little check and move on. But I'm so grateful to them because they weren't even trying to buy the league. And not only did they buy it 100% by me begging them to do so, so not for their own gain. They both have great jobs. They did it for me. And because I said, I just don't believe that I'm gonna lose. And if I sell my business and I win this battle, what am I supposed to do for income then? The doctors have already told me there's nothing more they can do for my spine. So how much more pain am I supposed to take? You know, what what is this gonna be or become? And then finally, I I uh they they have tripled my business, or we have, but I would say much more them.

Mike Gonzalez 9:03

Yeah.

Jeanette Lee 9:04

And so this year I have started going out and recruiting, and I've built a good number of teams. So I'm really proud about that because not just getting one, but I, you know, I would say maybe 12 teams in the last few months. And there's eight people per team. Yeah. And when I build a team, I try to make sure there's no less than seven people on the team, so there's some flexibility because I want these people to be here long term. I don't want them to join and then constantly have ghost single replays and no shows, and they'll feel it's unstable and they'll go, ah, this is not for me. So I really want to make sure that they're in a good place. But yeah, I've been able to do a lot of recruiting and which I wanted to do, not because I'm contractually obligated to, but to show my partners my gratitude. Because they took it on and they could have just ran it, kept with the status quo, but they improved so many things, and they made things that I just put together and made it classy because Michelle is a perfectionist, super efficient, super capable. Tony's also brilliant. He runs a university, like the top dog at a university does runs the whole show. So these are two very capable people, but they were trying to get me out of pinch and allow me to, if I live, become partners with them. And in the meantime, they have only built and grown and grown the league, which has also helped my paycheck.

Mike Gonzalez 10:41

Yeah, right.

Jeanette Lee 10:42

And it helps the future of if I ever sell this business, its currently value is three times what it's worth when I go to sell because of them. Even if they buy me out, they would have to buy me for that much more when they're the ones that grew the business, which is hardly fair. But that is the way that it is, and so I want to show them by me putting money in their pocket by growing this business. So that's to the extent that I literally blocked off the first three weeks and the last three weeks of every session, because that's the toughest, strongest, not the toughest, the best recruiting time for our league. And so I had my agent Tom block off those six weeks three times a year at the end of every session, summer, spring, and fall. So that's 18 weeks that I'm grounded, will not take shows out of town. And so I'm I'm showing more commitment to doing the work and growing them.

Mike Gonzalez 11:42

Yeah, well, big shout out to all the uh Tampa area APA players and APA players everywhere because they all know who Jeanette Lee is. And and by the way, they all need to tell their friends about this podcast we're doing with Jeanette Lee and make sure we spread her story so we get a maximum number of listeners. So I hope we have a a lot of new fans that we develop uh in the APA leagues everywhere. So as we kind of close out, Jeanette, uh, we've talked about some of your coaches, but uh perhaps you'd like to reflect on some of the others that uh made an influence on your game.

Jeanette Lee 12:13

When we were talking about coaches and teachers and things like that, I was just interested in how other people teach their clinics because I feel like we can always learn. However, while I was talking about, who was I talking about teaching me coach? Oh, Tyler Steyr. I was mentioning that Tyler Steyr is now starting to coach me, but I didn't I want to make sure that I recognize also that Charlie Williams has been spending time with me as a coach. Mark Wilson is my longtime coach, who I have tremendous respect for and is a dear friend. And before that, the first time I even thought about it would have been Bob Carmen, who doesn't have the knowledge or experience of the previous names, but he was an athlete and a champion. And he understands about training, and he became one of my closest friends to know how I work. He's the one that changed my lifestyle to match and say, there was no time that I wouldn't pick up the work phone. I was on call 24-70. He's like, Nope, this is your work hours. When you play pool, that phone is not in here. I never gave myself boundaries. So I was on call to whoever wanted me at all times. And so the quality of my practice time, but also my mindset, everything got better by his influence. And he was there, I guess he was a regular at Jerry Bryset's club. So he watched Jerry give a million lessons. I don't think Jerry even knew him because Bob can be kind of a quiet fly on the wall. You know, he likes to sit and watch me in the background. But Bob knew what to look for. He knew exactly what Jerry was teaching me. So while I was at home, he would be able to catch it. Oh, your elbow's kind of going out or doing this, you're clenching, look at your tip. So he knew enough to really help me, and he did. He spent a lot of time with me. And I want to make sure that I'm not having a conversation about Tyler without recognizing the people that have and do coach me as well because I'm grateful to them and I don't want them to feel like I don't appreciate them or that I think Tyler's better. It's just I want more. And one thing that Tyler has is right now the newest, he knows a lot about the newest technology, about these different zero deflection cues, which I've been interested in because when I was at the top of my career, when I was the busiest I ever was, I didn't have time to just experiment with a zero deflection cue. I don't want a zero deflection anyway, but I would like to go lower deflection and not have to, you know, worry about what's happening to the cue stick. And so he knows a lot about it, the difference of every single shaft, exact weights, exact tips, exact roundness, exact everything, and why. And it's not based on someone saying so. He can break it down and show it to me. And so it's been really interesting.

Mike Gonzalez 15:20

So, Jeanette, uh one new feature we've added to the program is something we call Allie's Rapid Rack. So, Allie, take it away.

Allison Fisher 15:30

Right, Jeanette. One player from any era you'd like to play one more set with. Everyone. Maybe you. I like that. I like that. I'd like that too. If you could steal one part of another player's game, what would it be and whose game?

Jeanette Lee 15:49

Wow. Just one part of someone else's game? Yeah. I would probably say either Yeah, the break. The break in um well, let's see. Johnny Boosty and George broke the hardest. But I don't know about Shane's nine ball break, but his ten ball break, I don't know if a lot of people can beat it. But we don't really compete in ten balls, so whoever's a good nine ball. Well, if I had the the talent, I've got the knowledge part of the rack and the break. So it's just not even the t yeah, the skill set, the power and stuff. I would probably say, Yeah, Johnny.

Allison Fisher 16:38

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, one word your closest friends would use to describe Jeanette Lee off the table.

Jeanette Lee 16:46

Yeah, go ahead, Allie. Let's hear what you've got to say now, 30 years later.

Allison Fisher 16:55

Uh let's leave it to one of your besties.

Jeanette Lee 16:58

All right. You said for me to describe how I would describe myself.

Allison Fisher 17:02

No, it's one word your closest friends would use to describe Jeanette Lee off the table. What do you think? One word.

Jeanette Lee 17:10

I don't know. The last two days I heard the word like she's a really nice person, like four times, which isn't the first thing that would have caught to mind, but lately they've been using it. Just I do a lot for other people, so they were talking about that. Like she's just kind, yeah. But yeah, kind or maybe I can be at times workaholic.

Mike Gonzalez 17:32

Busy then. You can phone a friend.

Jeanette Lee 17:34

Yeah, okay. I mean, if it's a negative thing, it would just be, you know, scatterbrained. Just I'm just always all over the place. If it's something negative, if it's positive, it's you know, I care maybe too much.

Allison Fisher 17:49

Right. Okay. If the Black Widow had a walk-on song, what should it be?

Jeanette Lee 17:55

That's a good question. I don't know. Da Derek, Derek Keith made me a really great intro one. I've got a DVD somewhere, but I don't even remember what music he used for it. Um my ringtone, I use Black Widow Baby, but just because it's it's a cool like beat and it says Black Widow Baby. I don't know. I don't really have one, I suppose.

Allison Fisher 18:21

You can think about that. You can call us back. Which do you trust more under pressure? Your stroke, your instinct, or your swagger? What do you hope people remember first when they hear the name Jeanette Lee?

Jeanette Lee 18:40

I don't know, disorganized, I guess.

Allison Fisher 18:47

One superstition at the table, real or imagined. Do you have any superstitions?

Jeanette Lee 18:54

No, you know what? Change that to strong. We're gonna go positive. Strong.

Allison Fisher 18:58

Right, go on, that's good. That's not the superstition though, right? Superstition at the table? Real or uh imagined. Do you have any superstitions? Things you need to do when you go out and play?

Jeanette Lee 19:15

I've like a routine, I go and hide in the bathroom right before my match to get my head in my match. So I like trying to just find a quiet because every minute till then there's people everywhere. So right before I think I'm gonna play match, I go hide in the bathroom. Just in a stall, and I just try to get in the right mindset and then try to escape from there to the match without having everybody then refill it with stuff.

Allison Fisher 19:44

Yeah, it's chaotic, isn't it? I don't know if that's superstition though, but No, that's that's okay though, but that's something that you do that's personal to you before you play. If you weren't in pool, what would your rebel self have been doing?

Jeanette Lee 19:58

I mean, before pool I was studying early childhood development and elementary education. That was my passion to work with children, but that's not really a rebel thing, it's kind of boring.

Allison Fisher 20:07

That's okay though. What's your best major event atmosphere? The best event you've played in with her atmosphere. But these are good questions. I think I need more time. I know, they're not easy, they're not rapid fire like what's your favorite fruit or what's your favorite color? Yeah, yeah. Best background. Major event atmosphere. What's the favorite one you've played in?

Jeanette Lee 20:36

It's not because it was the most beautiful, it was that it was so different, but the world games. The first time I the first and last when I went on the 2001 World Games in Aikida Japan. And just having it be like all these other sports. Yes. And in our room there was three cushion snooker and pool all next to each other, which I thought was really cool.

Allison Fisher 21:00

Yeah, that's neat. And then the last one is one rule that you'd change. One. Is there more than one? You can say more than one. But it's rapid fire, one question.

Jeanette Lee 21:14

Okay, all right. So I would say it may be even too late now because there's been so much promotion, but I think we should have been playing eight ball instead of trying to reteach America a new game.

Allison Fisher 21:28

Okay.

Jeanette Lee 21:28

I would have a smaller field, build them up, you know, really develop some stars. And I would not have such tight pockets. I would I think being able to have bigger pockets and being able to rob the pocket and bend the cue ball more is of more value. And having a tighter table makes our top players not look as good as they truly are because they're they're having to play tighter and different. Because the pockets are so tight. And you change the shot selection. When that's not even the real game. They don't like the basketball hoop and distance and height is the same, whether it's amateurs or pros. They don't go, oh, because it's pros, let's make the basketball that much smaller. Because the audience is not connecting with that. They're thinking it's the same equipment, but you can't run out. We're not running out. Whereas if we were playing on the same equipment as them, we would look so much better. And I think as a sport, that's important. It's not just about making it making it more difficult, making it more it's tough enough. You know, there's enough challenges and for us to have the freedom to be able to pocket the ball and do the things and control it, that's what differentiates us.

Mike Gonzalez 22:46

Yeah. Should should we rename the segment?

Jeanette Lee 22:49

Shut up.

Allison Fisher 22:51

I'm just gonna put these ridiculous questions.

Mike Gonzalez 22:54

I love it.

Allison Fisher 22:55

Ridiculously long questions.

Mike Gonzalez 22:57

Okay. Well, Jeanette, this has been a delight for us, but before we put a bow on it, we always ask three final questions of our guests. And let's see. I think I'm gonna let Mr. Wilson ask the first question. Okay.

Mark Wilson 23:12

If you knew when you were 20 what you know now, what would you have done differently?

Jeanette Lee 23:20

Well, the biggest thing is I didn't get diagnosed until Cheyenne was 11 that we both have ADHD. I guess I should have figured that out. But I think I would have worked harder in my younger years when I was really working on not just the pool game, but I actually studied and worked on the mental game, competitive mindset, you know, marketing sponsorship, all of this. I had to learn. I didn't know any of it. It wasn't natural to me. And uh I wish I would have put more time on like having more structure and more routine, doing things because it's affected my entire life. Just not having any kind of routine or you know, built-in habits. Just you know, just growing up on the streets and getting odd jobs and playing pool I never had to be and wake up, but because of that I'm constantly chasing. So I think that would have been a that would have been a game changer for me.

Mike Gonzalez 24:20

All right. All right, question number two. We're gonna give you one career mulligan, one shot to do over that might have made a difference in an event. Can you think of one shot that you would have liked to have taken again?

Jeanette Lee 24:33

One shot or one match?

Mike Gonzalez 24:35

One shot.

Jeanette Lee 24:36

Single shot.

Mike Gonzalez 24:37

A single shot.

Jeanette Lee 24:40

I would just say every time I miss the if there was ever a game-winning ball against Allison, I'd knock it in.

Mike Gonzalez 24:49

It's called focus.

Jeanette Lee 24:51

No, sometimes it's nerves, sometimes it's trying too hard or having things in my brain. For the pool table, it's not usually focused. My focus is usually there. It's just yeah, I got too much in the head. Or towards the end it was just not playing enough the way I was.

Mike Gonzalez 25:09

Okay.

Allison Fisher 25:09

And then and the last question how would you like to be remembered, genetically? That I did good things for the sport.

Jeanette Lee 25:20

I think. You know, I think that's probably in the end what matters because I feel like I did and then I felt like No I didn't because where are we? You know, I think we're on streaming when we should be on TV. Our game is not our sport is not so much bigger than it was in the nineties. I mean social media helps, but so people will say, Oh, you did a lot, but where is it if we did so much, you know? Uh but still it mattered, so it still matters. You know, I feel like I'm still doing something good with the sport, probably.

Allison Fisher 25:59

Definitely you've been one of the most well-known names outside of Paul 2. People know the Black Widow.

Jeanette Lee 26:06

Well, so they s also knew John McEnroe. That doesn't mean he was great for the sport, which he was, I think, but you know what I mean? Like it wasn't necessarily in a positive way. And for a long time I didn't feel like anyone thought it was in a positive way. You know.

Allison Fisher 26:22

So I think that we all have a little feeling about that of ourselves, though. I think uh the way other people perceive you is different.

Jeanette Lee 26:29

Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 26:30

Well, Jeanette, I think most of our listeners, certainly most of your fans, will agree that you did a lot for the game, and you certainly did a lot for pool fans in future generations who will be able to listen to this story and know who Jeanette Lee was all about. Uh thank you.

Jeanette Lee 26:46

Thanks to you guys.

Mike Gonzalez 26:47

Yep, you've given us a lot of your time, and we really appreciate you being here, and I'm sure Mark and Allison would uh add something as well.

Allison Fisher 26:54

Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's lovely, first of all, to see you looking great and to grace us with your presence because you know you've been through a lot, but you've done so much for the sport, and we really appreciate it. And all those youngsters out there should be looking on and admiring you and being very grateful that they have the opportunities that they do today. So thank you very much for everything that you've done.

Jeanette Lee 27:14

Thank you. You too, uh Lally, actually all of you, Mark. Um I learned so much from you because before you it was so much everything was about mindset and shot selection, pattern play, what's happening with the cue ball. And it really wasn't until I met Jerry and then also spent more time with you that I really focused on the stroke mechanics, which is huge just by itself. But there wasn't a lot of attention when I was, you know, starting pool. There weren't a bunch of people talking about it. How do you bank this ball? How do you hold this ball? How do you do this? Or you know, on my own studying the mental game, but I never considered the actual like perfection of the timing of the swing. You know, just how it all goes and to really be able to master it, see it, watch it, teach it. And that opened up a whole nother world because that wasn't until 2001. I met him for the first time two weeks before uh the World Games.

Mark Wilson 28:15

She's talking about Jerry, yeah.

Jeanette Lee 28:17

Yeah, but but that also brought me to you spending a lot more time with you because I mean you were within driving systems, you were generous with your time, and you know, you taught a lot of the things that he taught, plus put your own your own experiences and knowledge with it. And so it really, even though it couldn't show because I wasn't playing as much, I think it really helped develop me as a player, knowledge-wise, setting goals, really taking a hard look at what I'm not doing right, you know, giving me other things to work on. So I think it was really helpful. Will always be helpful.

Mark Wilson 28:56

We we appreciate everything that you've done, not just for the sport, but also for me personally, because a lot of people always say, Oh, you know the black widow. I go, Oh yeah. Or they usually say the spider lady. You know, and then they always motion with their hand like her hair's down. I go, I know her, yeah.

Jeanette Lee 29:11

Like this, right? They motion like this. I'm like, nobody plays like, don't you do this? And I'm like, no, we don't do this. We do this.

Mark Wilson 29:18

Well, thank you very much. Thank you. Much appreciated everything. Love you, Jeanette.

Jeanette Lee 29:22

I love you too. Allie, it's been a long ride with you and I. I'll tell you, you know. And we had our bumpy road, but I've always just had a tremendous amount of respect for you. I think what you did for our game really took it. I mean, not to disrespect the women before us, but where their game was and what you brought. Which I feel like, you know, competitively we were close. But it was your your discipline, your consistency, your pre-shot routine, just all of the next level professionalism that we just lacked. You know, it's not that the ladies didn't have grace or you know, class or any of those kinds of things, certainly smart women. But on the table, there was such a huge gap, in my opinion, between what we saw in the women compared to the men. You know, that the style of a Lori John Jones or Belinda Campo, uh, Belinda Beardon and a Ava Lawrence, that style is very different from the men. Whereas the men and the women, even if our dials we're women, so our styles are gonna be different anyway, but still the the level is pretty close. I mean, if you take away the physical break and you know, some other things for the most part, you know, we're pretty close. And I I think that we owe a lot of that to you. Well, thank you.

Allison Fisher 30:51

I really appreciate that. Thank you. But it's been great. It's been great competing with you over the years. Yeah, tremendous sport. Yeah, well, it really was. Great competitor. Loved it. Yeah, thanks.

Mike Gonzalez 31:01

Well, we'll leave it right there. And uh, Jeanette, thank you so much for adding your story to all of Pool's grades here on Legends of the Queen. We appreciate it.

Allison Fisher 31:09

Thank you. Thank you.

Mike Gonzalez 31:11

Thank you, Mike.