Michaela Tabb - Part 4 (Ronnie O’Sullivan, Walking Away and a Referee’s Legacy)

Mike Gonzalez 0:14

Well, let's fast forward then to 2012. Speaking of Ronnie O'Sullivan again, because this was your second final, Ronnie O'Sullivan against Ali Carter. By this time, you've got two young ones in tow, so you're balancing family life and children and work. And just tell us about that experience and how it differed from the first.

Michaela Tabb 0:34

Well, it was probably easier for Ross then, because we didn't have a baby as such. Preston was um a bit older. But I couldn't have done it without him. Um I mean, at the end of the day, I was going away to work, and it wasn't just going to work, like you go out the door at eight o'clock and come back at five or anything. I was away. So whenever I was refereeing, you I left home or left the country even. Um we worked all over the world. And if he wasn't able to basically take care of the family, then it could have never happened. So I mean it was a um it was a big family commitment that me we made um that and he made, he made to keep the the home going at home. Um because when I when I was away, it was the easy part. I didn't have to get up with a crying child or get off for school runs and things, you know.

Allison Fisher 1:26

Did he did he ever regret putting you forward as a referee? Were there any moments? Yeah, were there I was gonna say it must have been a few moments where he's like I'm I'm here with the kids and she's in China.

Michaela Tabb 1:40

I think there was probably a few more words in in there than that.

Mike Gonzalez 1:43

Yeah.

Allison Fisher 1:44

Well who would have thought who would have thought it would have gone international like it did as well? You were travelling all over the world, right?

Michaela Tabb 1:50

And yeah, it it was incredible. I remember there was um one event, it was the hardest that I ever did, but I didn't appreciate it at the time that I agreed to do it. And in fact, I wouldn't have turned it down. Um I finished refereeing an American pool competition in the Philippines, flew home to Scotland, had a four hour sleep, repacked my case, and got on a flight to Brazil. Oh wow, I was in a mess. Um absolute mess. My body didn't know where I was. I was trying to f my it was like it was the middle of the night at two in the afternoon. That was so, so difficult. But of course, I thought, ah, it would be all right, it'll be all right, but that was that was difficult. Yeah.

Allison Fisher 2:35

So back to the crucible, right? So, what could you enjoy about your second world final that you hadn't been able to enjoy the first time?

Michaela Tabb 2:44

I didn't have the media attention on me the same for the second one because I'd been there and I'd done it. So I was going out pretty much just as a as a normal ref, just as any ref. Uh, whereas there was so much attention surrounding me in the first one that it it it was like being in that sort of cauldron of um of of the pressure and the thoughts and the emotions. This one, this one was easier to go into, except two, well, two reasons. One, I had Ronnie O'Sullivan, um, but Ronnie O'Sullivan was also playing Ally Carter, and they've not got the best of relationships. So we knew it was gonna be a little bit tense from that point of view, and there was nothing on the table untoward at all. Um, but the it was a hard final. There I didn't seem to have lots of lovely breaks. Um, everything seemed to be slower and harder. It was more like a slog, a much, a much tougher second final. Um not not quite so enjoyable, if I was being honest, I have to say. Yeah, but probably just because it was harder. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 3:51

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you you spent uh several more years sort of balancing life, work, family, and so forth. Uh let's get to 2015 and uh tell us what you will and what you'd want about uh uh your departure from refereeing uh back back then.

Michaela Tabb 4:09

Well, and during um uh June uh 2014, um I'd I had uh a little bit of uh we'll we'll call it a disagreement um that with World Snooker uh on my employment contract. We had a difference of opinion, shall we say. And we went through the process for the next six months and ultimately I I resigned from um them. Uh and I mean I you know that we we don't need to hide the fact that we ended up in a a tribunal, which I then can't talk about, but we did end up in a tribunal. Um, me being me wasn't just going to um sit back and allow myself to be treated that way. So I had to stand up for myself. I thought I've I've worked so hard to be to get the reputation that I had, and so I wasn't gonna I wasn't gonna allow myself to be walked over um by the the association and uh decided that um ultimately I had to resign from the association and um stand up for myself. So we kind of did that. Um and that was a very, very low stage in my life. That that's the but in fact, if I'm being honest, that's probably the lowest stage I've ever had. It's a horrible, horrible thing to go through. But as I said previously, everything's sort of meant to happen for a reason. I don't really know what the reason for that was, but um ultimately when you fast forward to where I am now and I'm I'm very happy with my own business, you've got to think that that has paved the way to a certain extent.

Mike Gonzalez 5:43

Yeah. Well, uh I I know amongst your employment claims made that it was alleged uh sexual discrimination, unfair dismissal, breach of contract. And I think what you ended up doing, man, is just reaching a settlement which remains confidential with the organization, and that's understandable. Um did it sort of leave you with a little bad taste in your mouth, or has that changed over time?

Michaela Tabb 6:06

Oh no, it and I mean definitely left me with a bad taste. There's there's no doubt about that. Um it took a long time before I could even watch Snooker after it. Um I I can now and I'm back loving it again, but it took a long time uh for that to happen. Uh obviously it was it was hard. Um the you know, the whole watching Snooker, especially the bigger events like the Crucible or the Masters. Um, but uh ultimately I wouldn't change the decision that I made. It was just a long, hard process, I suppose, and an emotional process to go through. But I felt I had to.

Mike Gonzalez 6:42

Yeah. And Allie, you know, I know you and Kelly and Karen Korr and others can relate to kind of what you lived through in your days in the Snooker world where uh for women it was just a different deal. The money was different, the the you know, how you were treated was different, how you were viewed were different. And so I I suppose you can relate to some of the things that Michaela likely went through as a woman in sort of a man's world.

Allison Fisher 7:04

It's a very chauvinistic sport at the end of the day, wasn't it? It's certainly back in your time and certainly back in my time. Lots of barriers, I think. So being the first, you being the first in referee, and maybe me being the first female making a living at the game wasn't easy, wasn't always easy. And I can understand kind of what happened really. Very difficult. Never I think there's a lot of novelty in it. Like we would be invited to things as more of a novelty, and and possibly you felt that in the beginning until you sort of learned the ropes and was, you know, there to stay type of thing. Is that how it felt for you? Because that's how it felt for me a lot of the time.

Michaela Tabb 7:49

Yeah, I mean, I know I was given a contract because I was female, I was young, and obviously relatively attractive. I I I didn't if I had been an ugly female, I'd I don't know whether they I would have got that contract, even though I was proven myself as a referee, obviously, with the the American pool. It was very clear what they they were trying to do with regards to that. But yeah, being the first was probably the hardest because they didn't have processes or proper processes, right? They didn't have ladies changing rooms, all these things that you would take for granted now, and especially because there are so many more female referees now, which is obviously fantastic to see. Yes, yeah, because I I did that, I opened the door for that, and and that's something I'm very, very proud of. But I never had, and you and you never probably had that in then, you know, progress needed to happen, and um they probably needed their arses kicked along the way to get there.

Mike Gonzalez 8:50

Yeah. So one door closes, but another door opens for you.

Michaela Tabb 8:55

Absolutely. Um I mean it took a while. Uh the we were 2015 before um we had finished with the um with the tribunal. And so then we sort of moved into 2016. So it was a little bit of sort of life adjustment and on what we were going to do from there. And and then my husband uh come uh don't ask me where he got this from, but he came up with an idea to launch a pool table, as you do, you know?

Allison Fisher 9:24

So it seems a natural thing to do.

Michaela Tabb 9:29

Who knows? We we ended up, but literally, it's like I'd gone full circle. Everything started with English 8ball, and now this was us coming back to English 8ball again. So we did. We found uh a manufacturer to um make a table to our spec, um, which meant that we basically then had a brand, and we started a business selling pool tables, which ultimately grew into the the business that I've got, which is a family business um that I have and I I work very hard at today, which has got so much job satisfaction when you're working for yourself and working to benefit your your family. Um yeah, so so yeah, all meant to be, but back in the world, you know what? I sell cues now, I sell cases, so I know more now about Snicker cues and taper and the chevrons and titanium ferrels and all these hundreds of different tips that are available, you wouldn't believe it.

Mike Gonzalez 10:29

And your business is called On QWorld. And and for somebody that wants to find On Q World, where would they where would they find you?

Michaela Tabb 10:38

On online, on QWorld.com. Um and we we ship worldwide. We've got lots of we've we've got so much on there, it it's it's grown so much. My son came and joined us, I think it was after COVID. He left his full-time job he had with the bank because um during COVID, pool table sales went through the roof because everybody then wanted a pool table at home. Uh, and I couldn't cope. I was working seven days a week and couldn't cope. So uh he took a loop of faith and came over and joined me. This is Morgan. And um between us we've grown, and it's less pool tables now and more what we would call accessories, which is the cues, the the cases. Um, we we're in a very fortunate position that we've got the exclusive rights to sell Sunny Akane cues, which is what Ronnie's playing with currently. And we had that before Ronnie picked one up. So we've you know, we we have a cue range, we're predominantly English snooker and um sorry, snooker and English pill. Um I'll be honest, we do very little with American. Um, but we we have cues, for instance, from £35 up to £2,500. So such a massive array of quality handmade products. Um we just we just love it. As a family, we we just love it.

Mike Gonzalez 11:53

Yeah, and you're still doing black ball tables?

Michaela Tabb 11:56

We do. We are. Yeah.

Allison Fisher 11:59

That's a big thing in the UK, isn't it?

Michaela Tabb 12:02

English pool is English pool.

Allison Fisher 12:04

Yeah, much more. But what about other parts of the world? Where else will you find English pool tables?

Michaela Tabb 12:11

So that we do we do very, very well in Australia and New Zealand, probably the like more the like the Commonwealth countries. Europe's very big on it as well. Um not all of them though. France is big, um, mota, um, but but not that nine ball or American pool is a worldwide game. English pool, not or we'll call it black ball. No, we call it we call it English pool, literally to differentiate between America and that's all.

Mike Gonzalez 12:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, let's not let our listeners think that you uh quit refereeing completely because uh you have been refereeing, you were refereeing, you did some pool stuff, and uh and it was in uh 2025 you had some frames to do in the world seniors final at your crucible farewell.

Michaela Tabb 12:58

I did. So I'd still after I'd I'd left um World Snicker, I still worked with the Snicker Legends and the Seniors, World Seniors. So I was still involved with the game, but on a different level. Um, also still do exhibitions, and I um I was still refereeing what we'll call traditional Snicker. Um, but I was finding it more and more difficult because I wasn't there wasn't enough events um to referee. And to be on top of the rule book and be sharp when you're not out there every every week, maybe every week, every month would be better than once a year. Um I was putting myself under so much pressure um and stress that I didn't want to make a mistake on a ruling. Um and the rules had changed as well since I'd left the game. So I and I didn't have the backup of the other referees to to kind of make sure that I had the right understanding. So it it was relatively stressful. And I and then I thought, why are you doing it? You don't need to do this. Um and when I made the decision that I was gonna retire from traditional snooker, the relief, the relief was incredible. And I thought, why did you wait so long?

Allison Fisher 14:11

Yeah.

Michaela Tabb 14:11

Um, I probably could have easily retired from it a year to 18 months earlier because I felt like it. I wasn't enjoying it for that period, but I'd I was still I was still out there doing it. The relief was incredible. And the you know, the messages of support that I got from people um to saying, you know, congratulations on my career, because I it was a self-made career. There was nobody else, there was no other females that were that had a career doing that at that time. So it was a self-made career. Um and it it was great, it was the right time. But I'm I'm not I'm not away from it completely, um, which is also very, very good because it means I still keep my hand in, but uh in the different format from the traditional.

Mike Gonzalez 14:57

How gratifying was it for you to see another, a second woman referee referring a final in a 2025?

Michaela Tabb 15:04

It felt like it was a long time coming. Um I'd been the only one for so, so many years. Uh, and it's not gonna be long till we have um more because there are so many um fabulous female refs now that are that are all incredible at the job that they do that we I'm uh wouldn't be surprised if we see Tatiana Williston next year. She's long overdue a world final uh and it'll be great. So then there'll be two other i it'll it'll become less of a thing that um it still probably was when Desi did it last year. Uh but they'll never take it away from me, though. I'll always be the first. Yeah. That's right.

Mike Gonzalez 15:44

Yeah. Well, let me ask you if you if if you you will a series of questions about certain moments in your refereeing career. Let's just start with the first funniest moment you can remember in your refereeing career.

Michaela Tabb 15:58

I d I don't think I'd call it very funny, but everybody else did. Was when they picked up the cue ball in the crucible, in the world championships. I mean to say, for goodness sake. Oh, that I mean, it was the most stupid thing I've done. I can't even explain why I did it. It was just one of those things. I lost concentration and accidentally picked the cue ball up off the table. But we were in the world championships. We we were sort of live to some people around the world anyway. Um, and it's the one thing that people bring up constantly, and it was it was early doors. I think it was was it oh actually can't even remember. Maybe like 2005, it was quite early. Uh and or maybe it wasn't.

Mike Gonzalez 16:49

Okay.

Michaela Tabb 16:50

I need to go back and check that. But to this day, they still bring that up. What happened? What happened exactly? What did you do then? So it was a Saturday, uh it was a morning session. I I can't say it was a Saturday, it was a morning session, so it was a 10 o'clock session. It was the third session with um Stephen Maguire and Graham Dott. And um Stephen Maguire was quite heavily down in the points or in the in the in the frame score. Um, but because we were the first match on that day, you could hear the earphones from the audience that were too high. Um, and I needed to find an opportune moment to ask them to switch their earphones down. This is the ones that they're sort of wearing to hear the match commentary. And there's this particular uh part of the match. Um, Stephen's got in and he's potted the green. So if you can imagine that's the table, I'm I'm up here uh because he's potted the green in the bottom corner pocket on the right hand side. Um, and as I'm walking down, because I've decided right, this is the moment, and as I'm walking down, I'm talking to the audience because they're on my right, and I'm saying, could you please turn your earpieces down? They're a little bit loud. And so I obviously wasn't completely focused on the table, and where the cue ball had landed, the cue ball had landed in line with the green, but the green's in the pocket under the table, and the cue ball's on the top. And I've turned round from saying my little piece, and I've picked the cue ball up. And I've started walking, but I've cut the end of the table, cleaning it by the way, as I'm going. Of course. Yeah, it may as well. Cleaning the green as we put it on, and I've got to the end, and Graham has turned around.

Allison Fisher 18:28

He's waiting to take his shot.

Michaela Tabb 18:30

Yeah, well, no, Stephen's at the table, wondering where the cue ball's gone. Graham says, Michaela, you've picked up the cue ball. And I'm like, and I've looked down in my hands and I've got the cue ball, and I am like, oh my god, and I've gone, out loud. And I just wanted the ground to open up. Honestly, I have never felt so embarrassed and not knowing what to do with myself. And I've asked Irene, Irene's doing the scoring, he's doing the video recording. I've said, can you please bring it back up? Well, he's panicked, he's hit the wrong button, he's turned the recording off and he can't get it back. Oh no. I'm now having to ask Dennis Taylor up in comms to help put it back. Meanwhile, I've said, I'll I'll put the green back, have you know, sheepishly picked the green out and had to go and it was just it was unbelievable. I was so lucky it was somebody who is as light-hearted as Stephen Maguire because it it could have been a lot worse. He was he was so far down. It was the last well, and ultimately was the last session. This was him in the balls, it could have been so much worse. Yeah, yeah. It wasn't that funny, but it was to everybody else.

Allison Fisher 19:43

The audience probably switched their things right up to hear the commentators what they were saying back, you know. Oh, you just turned and turned it down and then you did that. Yeah, I bet they had a good laugh. Oh my god.

Mike Gonzalez 19:54

All right, how about your most intimidating moment?

Michaela Tabb 19:59

I had uh I had a moment with um Quintin Hahn and Peter Ebden at uh an event in Ireland. Um I I can't remember it was the Irish Open or what it was, but we were in a booth and I called a push shot on Peter Eden. Now, to give you a little, this was quite early in my career, to give you a little bit of background. In English pool, we would call a push shot as an easier call than, well, ultimately I learned than you you do in Snooker. In Snooker, it just seems to be that you they seem to be able to clip the ball a little bit thicker, and it seems to have got thicker and thicker over the years, I have to say. It's supposed to be the edge, supposed to play off the fine edge of the ball, but that doesn't happen. And I called a push shot. Um, and Peter basically said that wasn't a push shot, he disagreed. Quinton Hans giving it the oh, if you don't think it was a foul, we'll do we'll have a re-rack. And I'm like, no, we won't. I've called called a foul.

Allison Fisher 21:01

You're the boss, yeah.

Michaela Tabb 21:03

Yeah, I felt so intimidated because I believe that um Peter Ebden didn't think he played a push shot, but I thought he had, and I'm not being back, it's not that I'm not being backed up by this other player, but I'm being put in a situation now where I I'm just I'm feeling completely intimidated in the decision that I made, and ultimately where we're going from there. Um, and it was just awful, absolutely awful. Um, but again, it it was a because I'll go on from that then. So I saw I was sitting with a couple of refs and I saw a similar shot in another match. I can't remember if it was at the same event, and I said, Well, that was the that's the shot. That's the shot I called the push shot on. I called the foul on Peter Ebden. And Colin Brindad said, Right, okay. So that's one of those shots. It's easier not to call because if the other player, the opponent, thinks it is a foul, he will say, Is that not a foul? And then you can divert to the player who played it and says, Did you foul? And you're effectively putting the onus back on the player, to be honest. Instead of putting yourself out front and center because that what because that that's one of those shots that maybe is a little bit grey. I hate it. I think it's a wrong rule. I hate it. It's far too grey. As a ref you want black and you want white. Grey, there's no world for grey.

Mike Gonzalez 22:39

Alright, how about strangest or weirdest moment refereeing?

Michaela Tabb 22:44

Oh. Oh, I don't know. Oh, I don't know. Nah, I would have to struggle with that one. You need to come up with another one.

Mike Gonzalez 23:00

We'll let you phone a friend.

Michaela Tabb 23:01

Pass.

Mike Gonzalez 23:02

Pass. Okay. Proudest or most satisfying moment?

Michaela Tabb 23:08

My my first world final. Always gonna be my first world final. It was um incredible. Probably closely followed by my first ever final, which was the Welsh Open. Um again, I had a wonderful, wonderful match with two great players, but that final in the Crucible, um, incredible.

Mike Gonzalez 23:28

Yeah, good. All right. Well, listen, uh, one of the things we've added to our show, Michaela, is something we call Allie's Rapid Rack, which should just be a series of fast-paced questions, uh, emphasis on fast, right, Allie?

Allison Fisher 23:42

Not always the case with some people that we've had on here. So you can take your time if you need to.

Michaela Tabb 23:48

Are they supposed to be one-word answers?

Allison Fisher 23:50

No, it can be no, no, no, it's not like that. Fast, quick. This is you know, whatever comes to your mind. Rapid.

Michaela Tabb 23:56

Okay. Not right, you ready? Yeah. You have realized I'm not one of these people that does quick answers.

Allison Fisher 24:04

No, don't worry. Yeah, not worry. I'm not either. It could be this, it could be that. Right, ready? First one, for your own night out, Paul or Snooker. Who Crucible Hush or Moscone roar? Moscone. Ooh. What would your referee walk-on song be?

Michaela Tabb 24:27

Oh, I've had a few in my day. Oh. Yeah. I have had a few. And I can't think of it. Did you choose them? Sometimes. But it's a bit it it's a bit, you know, how do you pick your own walk-on song? It should be Devil Woman or something like that.

Allison Fisher 24:47

That's a good one. That's a really good one. We'll take that. Which player has made you laugh the most?

Michaela Tabb 24:54

Between two, and it's pretty consistent, it's either Mark Selby or Mark Allen. And if you get the two of them together in a match, then game over. There's always going to be hilarious.

Allison Fisher 25:04

That's great. One shot you never get tired of watching.

Michaela Tabb 25:10

Uh somebody else having to put the balls back after a foul and miss. One rule you'd rewrite tomorrow. Uh I've got two. One of them would be the foul and miss, and the other one's a push shot. And I've always said that.

Allison Fisher 25:27

Yeah. If your white gloves could talk, what would they say?

Michaela Tabb 25:32

Strong women.

Allison Fisher 25:33

Oh. What everyday behaviour deserves an immediate foul. Rudeness. Yeah, that's a good one. Which household chore needs a shot clock?

Michaela Tabb 25:49

Oh. I don't like any of them.

Allison Fisher 25:52

Yeah, agreed. Your essential tournament bag snack. Red Bull.

Michaela Tabb 25:59

I always have a Red Bull before I go out for every match. Every single match is my preparation.

Allison Fisher 26:05

That's interesting. The first comfort meal when you get home from a trip. Sunday roast. Oh, don't. I'm getting jealous now. Yeah. One Scottish word everyone should borrow. Bruh. Can you enlighten us on that? Bruh. That's great. That's good. Bruh. Oh, of course it is. Who would you trust? Who would you trust to referee a family board game? Oh. Well it'd have to be me. And of course. Of course. I don't trust anybody else. No, of course not. Your most your most unexpected talent away from the table. Um Super Mario. Who'd have thought? Who should play you in a film of your life? Oh. Sandra Bullock. Oh, that would be a good one. There's a little looky-likey there, I think. Don't you think? I like that. Finish the sentence. Away from the table, I'm surprisingly lazy. Unexpected, totally unexpected. One item you never travel to a tournament without white gloves. I'd be lying because I have forgotten them on a couple of occasions. Oh, yeah. Do you supply your own, by the way? Do they they bought yeah. Who gets the break in a family game of pool? We have to spin a coin. I'm a referee, it's rules. Right, gotta do it the right way. One word your friend would use that players might not.

Michaela Tabb 27:51

Oh. Oh.

Allison Fisher 28:00

I don't know. I don't know. That's a that's a funky little question anyway. Now, this is another one that's on here.

Mike Gonzalez 28:09

I like this one.

Allison Fisher 28:11

Can you give Ali the look that tells a noisy arena it's time to be quiet? Yeah. Oh yeah. We see it here, people. You need to watch this on YouTube.

Mike Gonzalez 28:22

Yeah, we're gonna miss this in the audio format, but the video will capture it.

Allison Fisher 28:26

Oh, we got the look. Right. Thank you for doing that. That was a lot of fun. Very welcome. What do you hope people remember about you beyond the history making first?

Michaela Tabb 28:39

That I'm actually a lovely person, aside from what I achieved, that I am a lovely person.

Allison Fisher 28:47

We believe you.

Mike Gonzalez 28:52

Michaela, if if you could sit down with your younger self, a little girl that maybe just picked up that pool cube for the first time, what would you want to tell her?

Michaela Tabb 29:03

I'd uh that's a tough one because it it would be to be a strong person and um trust your instincts and go and get what you want out of life, because that's what my parents basically taught us and encouraged us to do, but I did it.

Mike Gonzalez 29:21

Well there you're thinking that. Yeah. All right, we're gonna move to our infamous, now infamous, final three questions, which we ask each of our guests. And I'm gonna give the first question to Mr.

Mark Wilson 29:31

Wilson. Uh Michaela, this is a new segment. We call this Mark's Last Question. Oh. Do you feel beloved by the players and the fans?

Michaela Tabb 29:44

I actually do. Um of the things that I'm so, so proud of is I was supported uh by the fans, um, unless Ronnie's playing and you call a foul against Ronnie, because they all hate you. But on the whole, yes, I do. Um, and one, a hard, hard thing is actually to be supported in love by the female fans because there's there's always a little bit of sort of rivalry. Uh, but I'm I'm very proud to say that that I have got that. Um, and that is one of the biggest things I'll take from my career, is that I have been supported from both. Great.

Mark Wilson 30:22

Okay. If you knew when you were 20 what you know now, what would you have done differently?

Michaela Tabb 30:30

Oh I don't know, because I believe everything happens for a reason, so yeah. Maybe eat healthier. Maybe. Maybe go in the gym more. Yeah, that's boring, isn't it?

Mike Gonzalez 30:55

Change those things. What am I thinking?

Allison Fisher 30:58

I don't believe that.

Mike Gonzalez 31:02

All right. Uh second question. We're gonna give you one refereing do-over. Where would you take it?

Michaela Tabb 31:10

Oh, well, I would take it to not picking up the bloody cue ball. But the reality is it's is one of those moments that's that's kind of followed me through my whole career uh that people love to talk about. So maybe I would leave it as it is. Yeah.

Mike Gonzalez 31:24

Yeah, yeah. That's fair enough.

Allison Fisher 31:26

And the third and final question is how would Michaela Tabb like to be remembered?

Michaela Tabb 31:33

Um, honest, hardworking, good referee. Not female, because it wasn't about being a female. It was about being a good referee.

Allison Fisher 31:45

Excellent. Earning the right. So, Michaela, thank you very much for joining us today. It's lovely to see you. And I do miss you out on the floor actually, refereeing, because I miss those days.

Michaela Tabb 31:56

We haven't um we haven't been together around a table for a long time now.

Allison Fisher 32:01

No, it's a long, long time. I mean, might not be again, but nevertheless, it's lovely to see you. You too. You you look as young as you always did, I don't know. It's all about lighting.

Mike Gonzalez 32:12

Oh, yeah. Yeah, the tricks of the trade.

Mark Wilson 32:15

Mark, what did you learn today? Well, uh, she's just as strong as I thought she would be, and uh a lovely person to have on, and just a credit to our sport.

Michaela Tabb 32:25

Thank you.

Mike Gonzalez 32:26

You're welcome. Michael, we've been looking forward to this for a while. We really appreciate you uh joining us uh to tell your story here on Legends of the Q. Thank you very much for being with us.

Allison Fisher 32:36

Thank you for having me. Thank you. Thank you for listening to another episode of Legends of the Q. If you like what you hear, wherever you listen to your podcast, including Apple and Spotify, please follow, subscribe, and spread the word. Give our podcast a five-star rating and share your thoughts. Visit our website and support our Paul History project. Until our next golden break with more Legends of the Cube. So long, everybody's got a lot of people.